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> Are there any counterexamples of countries where the state picks up the bill? The state foots the bill in : France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Denmark http

> Are there any counterexamples of countries where the state picks up the bill? The state foots the bill in : France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Denmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elterngeld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elterngeld

avar 8y ago
Thanks. That's interesting, but according to the article some of these countries are just paying out extra money from the state on top of employer-mandated leave, or they have a hybrid system where the employer covers some significant percentage, which still leaves these incentives in place.
- denzil_correa 8y ago
  > according to the article some of these countries are just paying out extra money from the state on top of employer-mandated leave What do you mean by "extra money"? Also, are you against employer-mandated leave too? > they have a hybrid system where the employer covers some significant percentage In Germany, the employer doesn't cover any significant percentage - the money comes from the state.
  - avar 8y ago
    > What do you mean by "extra money"? In my original comment I'm suggesting that employers needing to pay out the salary of parents as they go on leave because they've had a child produces perverse incentives, and suggesting that things would be better off if the state was obligated to pay for that salary instead. This "Elterngeld" policy you've linked to describes something entirely different, at least in some countries. That Wikipedia article seems to conflate many different types of policies. In e.g. France this just seems to be an allowance system unrelated to however the French handle paid paternity and maternity leave (I'm not familiar with if/how they do that). According to the news article on the BBC which Wikipedia links to the German system is something similar. > Also, are you against employer-mandated leave too? I'm not sure I understand that. Am I against employers getting to decide if and when you go on leave? Yeah I can't see how that's a good idea, especially in the context of paternity or maternity leave. It should be up to the state to set that policy, and then you should have a right to make use of it. Your employer shouldn't be mandating anything. But that topic is entirely unrelated to my original comment, which is how you fund the leave once it happens. > In Germany, the employer doesn't cover > any significant percentage. So in Germany the Elterngeld is all you're getting? Given the money caps mentioned in the Wikipedia article that seems rather low, around 25K/yr. But in in case, I was referring to Sweden and Norway which according to that article have some system based on a percentage of salary, although I see now that that could mean that 80% is all you're getting, instead of the employer paying the remaining 20%. I don't know which it is. In any case, I feel all of this is getting lost in the weeds, and not at all discussing what I think is the interesting point I brought up, namely that if there's countries that run their policies as I was suggesting, have there been studies of how that impacted workplace discrimination when it comes to companies e.g. being more reluctant to hire women they think might get pregnant soon?

avar 8y ago

Thanks. That's interesting, but according to the article some of these countries are just paying out extra money from the state on top of employer-mandated leave, or they have a hybrid system where the employer covers some significant percentage, which still leaves these incentives in place.

denzil_correa 8y ago
> according to the article some of these countries are just paying out extra money from the state on top of employer-mandated leave What do you mean by "extra money"? Also, are you against employer-mandated leave too? > they have a hybrid system where the employer covers some significant percentage In Germany, the employer doesn't cover any significant percentage - the money comes from the state.
- avar 8y ago
  > What do you mean by "extra money"? In my original comment I'm suggesting that employers needing to pay out the salary of parents as they go on leave because they've had a child produces perverse incentives, and suggesting that things would be better off if the state was obligated to pay for that salary instead. This "Elterngeld" policy you've linked to describes something entirely different, at least in some countries. That Wikipedia article seems to conflate many different types of policies. In e.g. France this just seems to be an allowance system unrelated to however the French handle paid paternity and maternity leave (I'm not familiar with if/how they do that). According to the news article on the BBC which Wikipedia links to the German system is something similar. > Also, are you against employer-mandated leave too? I'm not sure I understand that. Am I against employers getting to decide if and when you go on leave? Yeah I can't see how that's a good idea, especially in the context of paternity or maternity leave. It should be up to the state to set that policy, and then you should have a right to make use of it. Your employer shouldn't be mandating anything. But that topic is entirely unrelated to my original comment, which is how you fund the leave once it happens. > In Germany, the employer doesn't cover > any significant percentage. So in Germany the Elterngeld is all you're getting? Given the money caps mentioned in the Wikipedia article that seems rather low, around 25K/yr. But in in case, I was referring to Sweden and Norway which according to that article have some system based on a percentage of salary, although I see now that that could mean that 80% is all you're getting, instead of the employer paying the remaining 20%. I don't know which it is. In any case, I feel all of this is getting lost in the weeds, and not at all discussing what I think is the interesting point I brought up, namely that if there's countries that run their policies as I was suggesting, have there been studies of how that impacted workplace discrimination when it comes to companies e.g. being more reluctant to hire women they think might get pregnant soon?