4 ms·

The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base sy

by rleigh 8y ago

The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs.

scarface74 8y ago
The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. How much has Windows and Linux changed during that time? I’m not going to read off the change log of everything that Apple has changed since 10.6 Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? So exactly what do you have to do to support the Mac Pro specifically? Of course they didn’t have any details. They hadn’t started on it st the time. But it still contradicts the narrative that where Apple is headed with the Mac is “unclear”. It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. I can give you hint. It’s going to be a multi core Intel chip. What are you thinking you need to do to support the Mac Pro specifically. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). Seeing they admitted they made a huge mistake with the current Mac Pro. The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. So the direction of the Mac APIs is of no interest to a Mac developer as is the fact that they are moving away from AppKit? Whether the fact they are merging the frameworks of IOS and MacOS are of interest to one random person on HN doesn’t mean their direction “isn’t clear”. The direction they are moving MacOS - the APIs is clear. that they are And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. So first it’s not clear and now “just the details” don’t matter. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs. So you’re a “cross platform developer” and you’re overly concerned about the Mac Pro - a tiny sliver of a tiny sliver of the market. But you just said that you didn’t care about the merging of iOS and MacOS as a “Mac only developer”. A “cross platform developer” has much bigger issues than the graphic APIs unless you plan to do something like Electron and anyone should avoid those apps anyway.
- rleigh 8y ago
  How much have Windows and Linux changed since 10.6. Quite a bit. But the MacOS X UNIX userland has not. It's over a decade out of date at this point. I've been increasingly running into portability problems, from missing or non-functional commands and associated command-line options, to long-fixed bugs which they haven't bothered to update. Stuff which has worked on Linux or BSD for the last 9+ years, is failing hard on MacOS. Because it's long out of date. The OpenGL deprecation is just another nail in the coffin. What do I need to do to support the Mac Pro specifically? Well, it's a wider question than that. It's more like: will I drop MacOS support entirely, or will this have sufficiently decent specification that it's worth re-evaluating dropping it entirely. For that, I would need to know about its GPU and VRAM, max RAM, storage options, connectivity, etc. The CPU itself isn't too exciting. And on top of that, what the software support for the GPU would be like. Such as how well supported it would be by MoltenVk, and the existing deprecated OpenGL drivers. Since I will not be using Metal, I need to know if the workarounds are acceptable, or if the result will be awful. I'm a cross-platform developer in the typical meaning of the word: cross-platform for desktops/workstations of all common operating systems. Serious visualisation software isn't for phones. If "cross-platform" means MacOS and iOS, then lord help us. iOS devices are toys in this realm. Poor GPUs, not enough memory, storage, or power. Most of Apple's Macs are also woefully underpowered, and that's the big reason for abandoning the platform, because they don't actually make a system worth having for high end usage. While they admitted they made a mistake with the Mac Pro, there's zero information about whether their replacement will be adequate for high end needs, or yet another hot mess. Will they be able to return to function over form? I'm doubtful. But without some concrete and sensible information from Apple, it's looking like complete abandonment from over here.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    How much have Windows and Linux changed since 10.6. Quite a bit. But the MacOS X UNIX userland has not. Still quite vague.... I've been increasingly running into portability problems, from missing or non-functional commands and associated command-line options, to long-fixed bugs which they haven't bothered to update. So you’re writing software that depends on the shell commands... Well, it's a wider question than that. It's more like: will I drop MacOS support entirely, or will this have sufficiently decent specification that it's worth re-evaluating dropping it entirely. For that, I would need to know about its GPU and VRAM, max RAM, storage options, connectivity, etc. You’re basing your software road map on what may appear on the hardware landscape 2 years from now? I hope you didn’t base your development on Intels road map for the last few years.... Since I will not be using Metal, I need to know if the workarounds are acceptable, or if the result will be awful. If you’re basing your roadmap on a deprecated API, that doesn’t say much about your product planning.... I'm a cross-platform developer in the typical meaning of the word: cross-platform for desktops/workstations of all common operating systems. So you’re a “cross platform” developer complaining about Unix support on the Mac? How is that Unix support working out on Windows?

by rleigh 8y ago

The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs.

scarface74 8y ago

The annual releases are mostly cosmetic and typically only change higher-level details. They haven't made much in the way of substantive changes to the base system since 10.6. At the lower level, it's looking like abandonware. How much has Windows and Linux changed during that time? I’m not going to read off the change log of everything that Apple has changed since 10.6 Apple is notoriously secretive. The "public announcement" of the new Mac Pro was a whole lot of nothing. Not one substantive detail. Am I supposed to wait until its 2019 release before making any commitment to support it? So exactly what do you have to do to support the Mac Pro specifically? Of course they didn’t have any details. They hadn’t started on it st the time. But it still contradicts the narrative that where Apple is headed with the Mac is “unclear”. It might be terrible, and there's no information about its specifications. "Waiting in hope" is no good for business and product planning. I can give you hint. It’s going to be a multi core Intel chip. What are you thinking you need to do to support the Mac Pro specifically. The hype train might work for phones, but for computer hardware it's a bit pathetic, and leaves me doubting they have a serious plan for it (as if the existing Mac Pro left us in any doubt at all). Seeing they admitted they made a huge mistake with the current Mac Pro. The merging of frameworks isn't of the slightest interest if you only develop for MacOS. So the direction of the Mac APIs is of no interest to a Mac developer as is the fact that they are moving away from AppKit? Whether the fact they are merging the frameworks of IOS and MacOS are of interest to one random person on HN doesn’t mean their direction “isn’t clear”. The direction they are moving MacOS - the APIs is clear. that they are And the new chipsets aren't particularly noteworthy either; they are just details. So first it’s not clear and now “just the details” don’t matter. As a cross-platform software developer, I really couldn't care less. But I do care about their support for industry-standard APIs. So you’re a “cross platform developer” and you’re overly concerned about the Mac Pro - a tiny sliver of a tiny sliver of the market. But you just said that you didn’t care about the merging of iOS and MacOS as a “Mac only developer”. A “cross platform developer” has much bigger issues than the graphic APIs unless you plan to do something like Electron and anyone should avoid those apps anyway.

rleigh 8y ago
How much have Windows and Linux changed since 10.6. Quite a bit. But the MacOS X UNIX userland has not. It's over a decade out of date at this point. I've been increasingly running into portability problems, from missing or non-functional commands and associated command-line options, to long-fixed bugs which they haven't bothered to update. Stuff which has worked on Linux or BSD for the last 9+ years, is failing hard on MacOS. Because it's long out of date. The OpenGL deprecation is just another nail in the coffin. What do I need to do to support the Mac Pro specifically? Well, it's a wider question than that. It's more like: will I drop MacOS support entirely, or will this have sufficiently decent specification that it's worth re-evaluating dropping it entirely. For that, I would need to know about its GPU and VRAM, max RAM, storage options, connectivity, etc. The CPU itself isn't too exciting. And on top of that, what the software support for the GPU would be like. Such as how well supported it would be by MoltenVk, and the existing deprecated OpenGL drivers. Since I will not be using Metal, I need to know if the workarounds are acceptable, or if the result will be awful. I'm a cross-platform developer in the typical meaning of the word: cross-platform for desktops/workstations of all common operating systems. Serious visualisation software isn't for phones. If "cross-platform" means MacOS and iOS, then lord help us. iOS devices are toys in this realm. Poor GPUs, not enough memory, storage, or power. Most of Apple's Macs are also woefully underpowered, and that's the big reason for abandoning the platform, because they don't actually make a system worth having for high end usage. While they admitted they made a mistake with the Mac Pro, there's zero information about whether their replacement will be adequate for high end needs, or yet another hot mess. Will they be able to return to function over form? I'm doubtful. But without some concrete and sensible information from Apple, it's looking like complete abandonment from over here.
- scarface74 8y ago
  How much have Windows and Linux changed since 10.6. Quite a bit. But the MacOS X UNIX userland has not. Still quite vague.... I've been increasingly running into portability problems, from missing or non-functional commands and associated command-line options, to long-fixed bugs which they haven't bothered to update. So you’re writing software that depends on the shell commands... Well, it's a wider question than that. It's more like: will I drop MacOS support entirely, or will this have sufficiently decent specification that it's worth re-evaluating dropping it entirely. For that, I would need to know about its GPU and VRAM, max RAM, storage options, connectivity, etc. You’re basing your software road map on what may appear on the hardware landscape 2 years from now? I hope you didn’t base your development on Intels road map for the last few years.... Since I will not be using Metal, I need to know if the workarounds are acceptable, or if the result will be awful. If you’re basing your roadmap on a deprecated API, that doesn’t say much about your product planning.... I'm a cross-platform developer in the typical meaning of the word: cross-platform for desktops/workstations of all common operating systems. So you’re a “cross platform” developer complaining about Unix support on the Mac? How is that Unix support working out on Windows?