3 ms·

I think they are saying give the same rights to take vacation to the father. It doesn’t matter who pays for it. I somewhat agree. If we want to level the playi

by mcny 8y ago

I think they are saying give the same rights to take vacation to the father. It doesn’t matter who pays for it. I somewhat agree. If we want to level the playing field, we can’t have extra rights and priveleges for women because clearly they become a liability. I think it is necessary but not sufficient though. I read here about github and the unlimited vacation policy which in practice is a no vacation policy. Just because men can take off doesn’t mean they will at least in the short term. We must keep this policy stable for decades to effect change.

kgwgk 8y ago
When something is mandatory it's no longer a "right".
- gambiting 8y ago
  In the EU it's mandatory for my employer to provide at least 25 days of paid time off per year. It's my right to take it, but I don't have to if I don't want to. The "mandatory" part is on the employer - they have to provide everyone with 25 days of paid holidays, unlimited paid sick leave, maternity/paternity leave - but it's not mandatory to take any of those for the employee - that's where the "right" part comes in.
  - kgwgk 8y ago
    I think that when CalRobert says > One way of handling this is making paternity and maternity leave nearly equal, and mandatory. "mandatory" means making paternity leave compulsory for employees. I could be wrong, though.
    - CalRobert 8y ago
      I meant mostly making it such that if you don't use it, you lose it. This works pretty well with vacation times in places that don't have utterly poisonous work cultures. For those places that do, I don't know what the answer is.
- eftychis 8y ago
  Not really. Something can be a right and an obligation at the same time. For instance there is the right to vote. Historically, in certain periods and countries vote was/is mandatory. (e.g. Greece) Sometimes, a right or measure has to become mandatory to ensure people enjoy it.
  - fwn 8y ago
    I always wondered whether mandatory voting isn't just a plain duty, like paying taxes. If you get penalized for not voting all the modern democratic idealism which portraits voting as a right is pretty stale. I completely get why the classic Greeks came up with it, though. They were obviously far more tribal in their culture.
belorn 8y ago
A level playing field might not go far enough. When we see government or organization that tries to get more women into areas where they are an minority, most of the time the money goes exclusively to them. The argument usually is that there is no reason to spend money and resources on the majority. Following such common practice then all maternity leave (and funds for that) should go to the fathers and only the minimal amount needed for recuperation to the mothers. The policy can then be leveled out if and when men start to take out more time than mothers.

by mcny 8y ago

kgwgk 8y ago

When something is mandatory it's no longer a "right".

gambiting 8y ago
In the EU it's mandatory for my employer to provide at least 25 days of paid time off per year. It's my right to take it, but I don't have to if I don't want to. The "mandatory" part is on the employer - they have to provide everyone with 25 days of paid holidays, unlimited paid sick leave, maternity/paternity leave - but it's not mandatory to take any of those for the employee - that's where the "right" part comes in.
- kgwgk 8y ago
  I think that when CalRobert says > One way of handling this is making paternity and maternity leave nearly equal, and mandatory. "mandatory" means making paternity leave compulsory for employees. I could be wrong, though.
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    I meant mostly making it such that if you don't use it, you lose it. This works pretty well with vacation times in places that don't have utterly poisonous work cultures. For those places that do, I don't know what the answer is.
eftychis 8y ago
Not really. Something can be a right and an obligation at the same time. For instance there is the right to vote. Historically, in certain periods and countries vote was/is mandatory. (e.g. Greece) Sometimes, a right or measure has to become mandatory to ensure people enjoy it.
- fwn 8y ago
  I always wondered whether mandatory voting isn't just a plain duty, like paying taxes. If you get penalized for not voting all the modern democratic idealism which portraits voting as a right is pretty stale. I completely get why the classic Greeks came up with it, though. They were obviously far more tribal in their culture.

belorn 8y ago

A level playing field might not go far enough. When we see government or organization that tries to get more women into areas where they are an minority, most of the time the money goes exclusively to them. The argument usually is that there is no reason to spend money and resources on the majority. Following such common practice then all maternity leave (and funds for that) should go to the fathers and only the minimal amount needed for recuperation to the mothers. The policy can then be leveled out if and when men start to take out more time than mothers.