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If you grew up in a conservative evangelical setting, as I did, you might have been taught that the peace sign is meant to evoke the claw of Satan and/or an ups

If you grew up in a conservative evangelical setting, as I did, you might have been taught that the peace sign is meant to evoke the claw of Satan and/or an upside cross and that it is therefore an anti-Christian sign. I never really believed that, but I also never bothered to figure out it's actual signification. Thanks for posting this.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
I think it's a very short list of things that evangelical Christians don't somehow consider to be signs of Satan.
Torwald 8y ago
You can't really prove either one proposition. I've heard that Witches use the peace sign in their rituals to fight Christians. I would be interested to hear more about that. Any Wiccan around here?
- krapp 8y ago
  > I've heard that Witches use the peace sign in their rituals to fight Christians. No, that's silly. Witches don't have "rituals to fight Christians," excepting the fringe sort of bigots that can be found in every religion. This is a stereotype that derives from medieval Christian ideology as informed by modern right-wing Evangelical paranoia, whereby all so-called "pagan" religions are assumed to be explicitly Satanic. Maybe take a minute on Google and try to find out what practitioners of other religions believe about themselves, rather than what their enemies believe about them.
  - Torwald 8y ago
    > No, that's silly. Witches don't have "rituals to fight Christians," excepting the fringe sort of bigots that can be found in every religion. Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols. > Maybe take a minute on Google and try to find out what practitioners of other religions believe about themselves, rather than what their enemies believe about them. You seem to imply I am a "modern right-wing Evangelical"? Maybe you could spare me your aggressions against these and stop being condescending towards me and instead help me out with the subject matter at hand? You seem to be knowledgeable about these things (maybe).
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      >Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? >What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols So, do you or don't you want know what neopagans think? On one side, you disregard all anecdotes. The other side, you want to know said anecdotes. I'm beginning to think this an insincere request. I know very few whom would answer that kind of question. Tl;Dr. Go look up occult books on symbolism. There's a lot of them. Perhaps that would be more up your alley.
      - Torwald 8y ago
        The problem is you can't really know wether somebody tells the truth about his own religion. I'd really like to know IF these anti-christianity rituals I've heard of are OLDER than the peace sign as anti-nuclear power symbol or not. IF they even exist. I do not find neither Wiccans nor Evangelicals overly trustworthy on that account. (I was hoping for a good link or two. Usually you get some good ones in the HN discussions, if you open your mouth.)
        crankylinuxuser 8y ago
        Well, you seem to have unique knowledge about "antichristian rituals". Care to share with us what these entail?
        Torwald 8y ago
        Not necessarily unique, since the other commenter seemed to know what I was referring to. That, or he knows about some anti-Wiccan Evangelical folklore, which I in turn wouldn't know of. What I have heard is that Witches who would turn over to that faith from Christianity would have to undergo a ritual denouncing their former faith. Part of that ritual (or a subgroup of them, I guess), would be a transformation of a (Christian) cross in a circle into a peace sign, by turning the cross upside down and then breaking the cross beams such as to form the peace sign. If this really happens, I would like to know deeper Wiccan meanings about it. Is it related to "peace"? How old are these customs? etc
blentrop 8y ago
I always thought it was the footprint (clawprint) of a dove
- burfog 8y ago
  It's a chicken foot. The match is a very good fit, and logically it fits with one meaning of the word "chicken" -- that is, to not be brave.
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    Regardless of being right or not, it takes courage and braveness to stand up against authority. Also, "chicken" has more meaning than "not being brave" [1] so logically you suffer from tunnel vision. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken#In_religion_and_mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken#In_religion_and_mythol...
LionRoar 8y ago
I grew up, not with the satan idea, but was told that there was a relation between the apostle Peter and the symbol. The reason for that was that Peter was crucified upsidedown. They argued why someone would use it as a peace symbol when it was the symbol of Peter crucified. Which was a very strange argument if you think about it.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  Never forget that radicals of any religion will retcon reality to suit their whims. This isn't a unique trait of Abrahamic religions (although the direct relative of the same underlying religion sure do like to fight). All I can say, to challenge this proactive lying and deceitfulness, is to demand proof of a historical claim or STFU.
Fnoord 8y ago
> and that it is therefore an anti-Christian sign. Various Christian church segments, including ones related to protestantism, were pro-peace/anti-war/anti-violence such as the Quakers in the USA [1] See also the Wikipedia entry peace churches [2]. I happen to know the peace movement in The Netherlands (with Nijmegen being an important center) was entwined with the hippie movement, and consisted of religious Christians. Not solely though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_movement#Historic_peace_churches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_movement#Historic_peace_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_churches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_churches
BonesJustice 8y ago
The DARE officers that came to my elementary school down south in the 90s called it a “broken cross” and a likely gang symbol.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

I think it's a very short list of things that evangelical Christians don't somehow consider to be signs of Satan.

Torwald 8y ago

You can't really prove either one proposition. I've heard that Witches use the peace sign in their rituals to fight Christians. I would be interested to hear more about that. Any Wiccan around here?

krapp 8y ago
> I've heard that Witches use the peace sign in their rituals to fight Christians. No, that's silly. Witches don't have "rituals to fight Christians," excepting the fringe sort of bigots that can be found in every religion. This is a stereotype that derives from medieval Christian ideology as informed by modern right-wing Evangelical paranoia, whereby all so-called "pagan" religions are assumed to be explicitly Satanic. Maybe take a minute on Google and try to find out what practitioners of other religions believe about themselves, rather than what their enemies believe about them.
- Torwald 8y ago
  > No, that's silly. Witches don't have "rituals to fight Christians," excepting the fringe sort of bigots that can be found in every religion. Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols. > Maybe take a minute on Google and try to find out what practitioners of other religions believe about themselves, rather than what their enemies believe about them. You seem to imply I am a "modern right-wing Evangelical"? Maybe you could spare me your aggressions against these and stop being condescending towards me and instead help me out with the subject matter at hand? You seem to be knowledgeable about these things (maybe).
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    >Unless you know each and every witch personally, how can you know what rituals they engage in? >What I would be interested in is to find out about Wiccan/Neo-Pagan believes regarding the peace symbols So, do you or don't you want know what neopagans think? On one side, you disregard all anecdotes. The other side, you want to know said anecdotes. I'm beginning to think this an insincere request. I know very few whom would answer that kind of question. Tl;Dr. Go look up occult books on symbolism. There's a lot of them. Perhaps that would be more up your alley.
    - Torwald 8y ago
      The problem is you can't really know wether somebody tells the truth about his own religion. I'd really like to know IF these anti-christianity rituals I've heard of are OLDER than the peace sign as anti-nuclear power symbol or not. IF they even exist. I do not find neither Wiccans nor Evangelicals overly trustworthy on that account. (I was hoping for a good link or two. Usually you get some good ones in the HN discussions, if you open your mouth.)
      - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
        Well, you seem to have unique knowledge about "antichristian rituals". Care to share with us what these entail?
        Torwald 8y ago
        Not necessarily unique, since the other commenter seemed to know what I was referring to. That, or he knows about some anti-Wiccan Evangelical folklore, which I in turn wouldn't know of. What I have heard is that Witches who would turn over to that faith from Christianity would have to undergo a ritual denouncing their former faith. Part of that ritual (or a subgroup of them, I guess), would be a transformation of a (Christian) cross in a circle into a peace sign, by turning the cross upside down and then breaking the cross beams such as to form the peace sign. If this really happens, I would like to know deeper Wiccan meanings about it. Is it related to "peace"? How old are these customs? etc

blentrop 8y ago

I always thought it was the footprint (clawprint) of a dove

burfog 8y ago
It's a chicken foot. The match is a very good fit, and logically it fits with one meaning of the word "chicken" -- that is, to not be brave.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  Regardless of being right or not, it takes courage and braveness to stand up against authority. Also, "chicken" has more meaning than "not being brave" [1] so logically you suffer from tunnel vision. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken#In_religion_and_mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken#In_religion_and_mythol...

LionRoar 8y ago

I grew up, not with the satan idea, but was told that there was a relation between the apostle Peter and the symbol. The reason for that was that Peter was crucified upsidedown. They argued why someone would use it as a peace symbol when it was the symbol of Peter crucified. Which was a very strange argument if you think about it.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
Never forget that radicals of any religion will retcon reality to suit their whims. This isn't a unique trait of Abrahamic religions (although the direct relative of the same underlying religion sure do like to fight). All I can say, to challenge this proactive lying and deceitfulness, is to demand proof of a historical claim or STFU.

Fnoord 8y ago

> and that it is therefore an anti-Christian sign. Various Christian church segments, including ones related to protestantism, were pro-peace/anti-war/anti-violence such as the Quakers in the USA [1] See also the Wikipedia entry peace churches [2]. I happen to know the peace movement in The Netherlands (with Nijmegen being an important center) was entwined with the hippie movement, and consisted of religious Christians. Not solely though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_movement#Historic_peace_churches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_movement#Historic_peace_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_churches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_churches

BonesJustice 8y ago

The DARE officers that came to my elementary school down south in the 90s called it a “broken cross” and a likely gang symbol.