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It’s worth reminding everyone that Harvard is the reason there’s any discrimination in the admissions process. Students used to get accepted on academic merit a

It’s worth reminding everyone that Harvard is the reason there’s any discrimination in the admissions process. Students used to get accepted on academic merit alone. But Harvard wanted to covertly discriminate against Jewish applicants. The reason why you have to write essays about your extracurricular activities, for example, is because a Jewish applicant back then typically wouldn’t have any. It’s also when legacy admissions began for the same reason. Why the hell are we still allowing this? It should be grades and test scores only.

cycrutchfield 8y ago
Hell no. Optimizing solely for grades and test scores will get you rote-memorizing robots with zero personal skills and minimal potential. A completely merit-based, objective admissions system simply does not exist.
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  You are making a reasonable, but baseless claim. You are saying that 4.0 GPA students with 1600 SAT scores have zero personal skills, are robots, and have minimal potential. We know though, that SAT is a one of the best available predictors of outcome.
  - cycrutchfield 8y ago
    I am saying that grades and SATs are just two factors in predicting potential. Saying that we should only use those two factors when we have a wealth of other factors to complement them is sheer naivety.
- perl4ever 8y ago
  Lumping test scores and grades together seems to obscure that one was intended to fix issues with the other. I think that a purpose of the SAT was to combat the undesirable effects of judging people solely on grades. It's meant to be a measure of aptitude, exactly because your grades can reflect how good your school was, how much you memorized, your economic/social class, grade inflation, and so on. People who do well on the SAT (or at least who did on the old SAT back in the early 90s and before) did not necessarily study at all for it.
justin66 8y ago
> Students used to get accepted on academic merit alone. That seems unlikely, to put it mildly. Nepotism is not a recent innovation.
- aiyodev 8y ago
  Did you read my post? Legacy admission was started at Harvard as a means of ethnic discrimination. Before then, a large percentage of students at Harvard were Jewish because they ignored the social convention that only the elites applied to Harvard. When students are judged only on academic merit, nepotism is not an issue.
  - justin66 8y ago
    Of course I read your post. I don't believe "judged only on academic merit" was ever how Harvard operated, and the IMO naive statement Students used to get accepted on academic merit alone was what I initially objected to. I'm not disagreeing with the point that that they might have engaged in some targetted anti-Semitic discrimination.

cycrutchfield 8y ago

Hell no. Optimizing solely for grades and test scores will get you rote-memorizing robots with zero personal skills and minimal potential. A completely merit-based, objective admissions system simply does not exist.

WillPostForFood 8y ago
You are making a reasonable, but baseless claim. You are saying that 4.0 GPA students with 1600 SAT scores have zero personal skills, are robots, and have minimal potential. We know though, that SAT is a one of the best available predictors of outcome.
- cycrutchfield 8y ago
  I am saying that grades and SATs are just two factors in predicting potential. Saying that we should only use those two factors when we have a wealth of other factors to complement them is sheer naivety.
perl4ever 8y ago
Lumping test scores and grades together seems to obscure that one was intended to fix issues with the other. I think that a purpose of the SAT was to combat the undesirable effects of judging people solely on grades. It's meant to be a measure of aptitude, exactly because your grades can reflect how good your school was, how much you memorized, your economic/social class, grade inflation, and so on. People who do well on the SAT (or at least who did on the old SAT back in the early 90s and before) did not necessarily study at all for it.

justin66 8y ago

> Students used to get accepted on academic merit alone. That seems unlikely, to put it mildly. Nepotism is not a recent innovation.

aiyodev 8y ago
Did you read my post? Legacy admission was started at Harvard as a means of ethnic discrimination. Before then, a large percentage of students at Harvard were Jewish because they ignored the social convention that only the elites applied to Harvard. When students are judged only on academic merit, nepotism is not an issue.
- justin66 8y ago
  Of course I read your post. I don't believe "judged only on academic merit" was ever how Harvard operated, and the IMO naive statement Students used to get accepted on academic merit alone was what I initially objected to. I'm not disagreeing with the point that that they might have engaged in some targetted anti-Semitic discrimination.