4 ms·

Diversity is advertised too much those days, but in reality, it barely matters. The advocates need to further explain why it is good for the team and such. Sin

Diversity is advertised too much those days, but in reality, it barely matters. The advocates need to further explain why it is good for the team and such. Since many companies, including my own, implementing the diversity initiative by lowering the bar for the diversity candidates, even those that are being turned down at earliest stage, still interestingly, being rescued later. However, even people take issues about the candidate in question, they are afraid to voice any opinions, because the fear of being labeled as bigots. As ironic as it gets, during the group meeting, that the said candidate apparently doesn't have any deliverable for 6 months, still being praised with great efforts and hard works, while others in the team are pressured to take over what is supposedly to be done by the candidate. I don't think this put the diversity initiative into good lights. It only further convinces people that it is more to the vanity of higher management other than productivity/benefits of the team/company itself.

ikeyany 8y ago
You work at a company where minorities get praised for not having any deliverable in 6 months? Which company? If this does happen at your company, there's no need to use a throwaway account.
- throwappppp 8y ago
  The rule of thumb is not disclosing any identifiable info on the internet. :P The company is a big one, a named one, but with some age on it. As absurd as it sounds, the candidate is hired for a hotly sought after position, that supposedly requires production ready coding skills AND battle tested machine learning skills. Yet the candidate comes with no knowledge of Python or Linux.
  - dubdub55 8y ago
    Occam's razor. You're leaving some critical information out. No one gets hired for a competitive ML role without basic backend knowledge, let alone "python or linux".
    - candiodari 8y ago
      That might be the point. After all the GP post is about how standards are lowered for diversity candidates, then they go on about how they're hired without necessary knowledge. How is this not lowering the bar ? And, if your claim is that this doesn't happen: I have to say, I've seen people hired for many reasons. Because they're related to X (perhaps including that they can't find a job otherwise). Because they or someone in their immediate environment is disabled (which gets your boss a tax advantage). Because ... So I would argue in Europe, it's almost the opposite. People are really treated as interchangeable, and hiring for ability is really more the exception in many companies. Hiring to make the boss look good, hiring fox tax reasons, ... And before you say "that doesn't happen at fancy FANG company", I would like to remind you that all of Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple and Facebook have LARGE Irish offices, and I've visited the Facebook one: not many Irish (like 30% of the office at most, and they apologize during the interview for trying to get you to Ireland, so it's not like they like it. I'd bet good money the other companies are similar). How much do you want to bet that the "dutch Irish sandwich" tax avoidance scheme requires a minimum headcount in Ireland ? So let's just state this as a fact: ALL the FANG companies hire less competent people because of location (this must be the tradeoff) in trade for tax advantages in Europe. Every last one of them. Every last one. And if they do it, which are these mythical companies that hire because of the bar, wherever ? We complain a lot, but when it comes to employees, nobody really doubts that FB, GOOG, MSFT, AMZN are the top, la creme de la creme. Who is this mythical company that does not lower the bar ? And if they do lower the bar, why would they not lower it below whatever you consider a reasonable level, especially for positions where they can't really hire well anyway ?
qqengineer 8y ago
Are you joking? All you need to do is search for why is diversity good for business to get the further explanation that you're saying someone should just give to you. I can not believe that you are choosing not to look up the data and instead propagate your feeling- because that's what it is- that diversity is vanity. roll eyes

ikeyany 8y ago

You work at a company where minorities get praised for not having any deliverable in 6 months? Which company? If this does happen at your company, there's no need to use a throwaway account.

throwappppp 8y ago
The rule of thumb is not disclosing any identifiable info on the internet. :P The company is a big one, a named one, but with some age on it. As absurd as it sounds, the candidate is hired for a hotly sought after position, that supposedly requires production ready coding skills AND battle tested machine learning skills. Yet the candidate comes with no knowledge of Python or Linux.
- dubdub55 8y ago
  Occam's razor. You're leaving some critical information out. No one gets hired for a competitive ML role without basic backend knowledge, let alone "python or linux".
  - candiodari 8y ago
    That might be the point. After all the GP post is about how standards are lowered for diversity candidates, then they go on about how they're hired without necessary knowledge. How is this not lowering the bar ? And, if your claim is that this doesn't happen: I have to say, I've seen people hired for many reasons. Because they're related to X (perhaps including that they can't find a job otherwise). Because they or someone in their immediate environment is disabled (which gets your boss a tax advantage). Because ... So I would argue in Europe, it's almost the opposite. People are really treated as interchangeable, and hiring for ability is really more the exception in many companies. Hiring to make the boss look good, hiring fox tax reasons, ... And before you say "that doesn't happen at fancy FANG company", I would like to remind you that all of Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple and Facebook have LARGE Irish offices, and I've visited the Facebook one: not many Irish (like 30% of the office at most, and they apologize during the interview for trying to get you to Ireland, so it's not like they like it. I'd bet good money the other companies are similar). How much do you want to bet that the "dutch Irish sandwich" tax avoidance scheme requires a minimum headcount in Ireland ? So let's just state this as a fact: ALL the FANG companies hire less competent people because of location (this must be the tradeoff) in trade for tax advantages in Europe. Every last one of them. Every last one. And if they do it, which are these mythical companies that hire because of the bar, wherever ? We complain a lot, but when it comes to employees, nobody really doubts that FB, GOOG, MSFT, AMZN are the top, la creme de la creme. Who is this mythical company that does not lower the bar ? And if they do lower the bar, why would they not lower it below whatever you consider a reasonable level, especially for positions where they can't really hire well anyway ?

qqengineer 8y ago

Are you joking? All you need to do is search for why is diversity good for business to get the further explanation that you're saying someone should just give to you. I can not believe that you are choosing not to look up the data and instead propagate your feeling- because that's what it is- that diversity is vanity. roll eyes