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No. If one was raped it should be reported and the perpetrator should be prosecuted. You cannot let these people go unpunished and potentially rape others.

by kukx 8y ago

toomanybeersies 8y ago
That is a vastly simplistic view of rape and sexual assault and comes very close to victim blaming. In many societies there is a stigma attached to sexual assault victims, even in western society many victims get blamed: "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?", "maybe she went home with him and just regretted it the next day". As terrible as it is, for some people the best way to handle their trauma is to never speak of it and pretend it never happened. Going to the police can cause all sorts of problems, as you have to relive the trauma as you fill out your victim statement, as you go to court, as everyone around you feels pity, like you're damaged goods.
- kukx 8y ago
  I doubt that "for some people the best way to handle their trauma is to never speak of it and pretend it never happened" is actually true. I would like to see some study that proves that. Otherwise you just empower the rapists for no justifiable reason. And even if there is some personal net benefit for not telling anyone. Is it more important than saving others from potentially the same harm?
  - qubex 8y ago
    Has it occurred to you that maybe one of the root causes of so-called ”rape culture” is that would-be rapists do indeed feel thusly empowered?
    - kukx 8y ago
      But is there a "rape culture"? I mean there are criminals that commit rape. But what are the reasons to call it a culture. As far as I know, the rape, at least in the western world, is perceived as a terrible thing and is punished by law.
      - qubex 8y ago
        I’m not American. I just hear the term bandied about a lot (including by my equally-foreign, US-college educated fiancée, who has regaled me with several horror stories relating to young women on her campus).
    - 1000units 8y ago
      No, certainly not. The threat of serious legal reprisal deters criminals of all sorts, including rapists.
      - lawlessone 8y ago
        Most rape trials fail to secure a conviction though, and that's when it's actually reported, majority of cases are not. >The threat of serious legal reprisal deters criminals of all sorts And yet we have plenty of crime..
- paidleaf 8y ago
  > even in western society many victims get blamed: No they don't. Which western society? In western society ( US for example ), we presume the alleged victim is telling the truth and the accused is guilty. In western society, we release the name of the accused and protect identity of the alleged victim. Even when the courts find out that the accuser lied, her name is withheld and protected. Don't know which "western society" you are from, but in the US, it's usually the accused, not the alleged victim, that suffer, whether the rape happened or not. > "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?" What? This is simply a lie. You know it. > "maybe she went home with him and just regretted it the next day". Because we have cases of this happening. Remember the mattress girl from columbia? We have a few high profile cases of women consensually having sex with guys and then regretting it later and then falsely accusing the men of rape. I'm tired of the false narrative of rape and rape society of the west. Does rape happen in the west. Sure. Are rape cases prosecuted. Yes. Are rape victims ( and even false accusers ) protected. Yes. But stop lying about how we shame or attack rape victims. Maybe in the 1800s, but not today.
  - marchenko 8y ago
    >> "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?" >What? This is simply a lie. You know it. This statement is highly uncharitable to your interlocutor above and frankly ignorant of the history of sexual assault prosecutions in the US. There has been a longstanding and documented strategy of defense attorneys trying to paint the alleged victim unsympathetically to try to elicit a just world theory-based response: "she was engaged in dangerous behaviour - that couldn't happen to someone like me". It is important to distinguish the high-profile Title 9/social media kangaroo courts with the workings of the actual US justice system.
    - paidleaf 8y ago
      > This statement is highly uncharitable to your interlocutor above and frankly ignorant of the history of sexual assault prosecutions in the US. Once again, we are talking about western society today, not in history. I already acknowledged in my comment that things were different in the past. > "she was engaged in dangerous behaviour - that couldn't happen to someone like me". Once again, a foreigner pushing "rape culture" rhetoric about the US and sowing divisions. Just curious, if you aren't american, why are you posting about it as if you were american? > It is important to distinguish the high-profile Title 9/social media kangaroo courts with the workings of the actual US justice system. I wasn't just talking about title IX or social media. I was talking about media, the courts and society in general. When a woman accuses a man of rape, she is believed and the man is scorned - even before trial. Stop trying to paint the US today as it was in the past or the congo.
- Bromskloss 8y ago
  > "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?" To call these things "victim blaming" is disingenuous, I think, because it makes it sound like someone is saying that you are guilty of rape (of yourself) if you do those things. Instead, we need to separate between two acts: rape, and subjecting yourself to danger (danger of rape, in this instance). The latter is not a crime and does not make you an accomplice of the rape, and it does not take any guilt of the rapist, but it might still be stupid and blameworthy on its own, as a separate act, even if it ends well and no rape occurs. I mean, my loved ones surely would be upset with me if I subjected myself to excessive danger, or just neglected to lock my door when I left home. The danger in question does not even have to be related to a crime. It could be recklessly climbing a mountain or a scaffold. In that case, it certainly not about taking responsibility of a wrong from a criminal and putting it on the victim – because there is no such wrong – but blame might still be reasonable. > "maybe she went home with him and just regretted it the next day" This falls in neither of the above two categories. It is just a hypothesis that has to be taken into account like any other.

No. If one was raped it should be reported and the perpetrator should be prosecuted. You cannot let these people go unpunished and potentially rape others.

by kukx 8y ago

No. If one was raped it should be reported and the perpetrator should be prosecuted. You cannot let these people go unpunished and potentially rape others.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

That is a vastly simplistic view of rape and sexual assault and comes very close to victim blaming. In many societies there is a stigma attached to sexual assault victims, even in western society many victims get blamed: "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?", "maybe she went home with him and just regretted it the next day". As terrible as it is, for some people the best way to handle their trauma is to never speak of it and pretend it never happened. Going to the police can cause all sorts of problems, as you have to relive the trauma as you fill out your victim statement, as you go to court, as everyone around you feels pity, like you're damaged goods.

kukx 8y ago
I doubt that "for some people the best way to handle their trauma is to never speak of it and pretend it never happened" is actually true. I would like to see some study that proves that. Otherwise you just empower the rapists for no justifiable reason. And even if there is some personal net benefit for not telling anyone. Is it more important than saving others from potentially the same harm?
- qubex 8y ago
  Has it occurred to you that maybe one of the root causes of so-called ”rape culture” is that would-be rapists do indeed feel thusly empowered?
  - kukx 8y ago
    But is there a "rape culture"? I mean there are criminals that commit rape. But what are the reasons to call it a culture. As far as I know, the rape, at least in the western world, is perceived as a terrible thing and is punished by law.
    - qubex 8y ago
      I’m not American. I just hear the term bandied about a lot (including by my equally-foreign, US-college educated fiancée, who has regaled me with several horror stories relating to young women on her campus).
  - 1000units 8y ago
    No, certainly not. The threat of serious legal reprisal deters criminals of all sorts, including rapists.
    - lawlessone 8y ago
      Most rape trials fail to secure a conviction though, and that's when it's actually reported, majority of cases are not. >The threat of serious legal reprisal deters criminals of all sorts And yet we have plenty of crime..
paidleaf 8y ago
> even in western society many victims get blamed: No they don't. Which western society? In western society ( US for example ), we presume the alleged victim is telling the truth and the accused is guilty. In western society, we release the name of the accused and protect identity of the alleged victim. Even when the courts find out that the accuser lied, her name is withheld and protected. Don't know which "western society" you are from, but in the US, it's usually the accused, not the alleged victim, that suffer, whether the rape happened or not. > "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?" What? This is simply a lie. You know it. > "maybe she went home with him and just regretted it the next day". Because we have cases of this happening. Remember the mattress girl from columbia? We have a few high profile cases of women consensually having sex with guys and then regretting it later and then falsely accusing the men of rape. I'm tired of the false narrative of rape and rape society of the west. Does rape happen in the west. Sure. Are rape cases prosecuted. Yes. Are rape victims ( and even false accusers ) protected. Yes. But stop lying about how we shame or attack rape victims. Maybe in the 1800s, but not today.
- marchenko 8y ago
  >> "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?" >What? This is simply a lie. You know it. This statement is highly uncharitable to your interlocutor above and frankly ignorant of the history of sexual assault prosecutions in the US. There has been a longstanding and documented strategy of defense attorneys trying to paint the alleged victim unsympathetically to try to elicit a just world theory-based response: "she was engaged in dangerous behaviour - that couldn't happen to someone like me". It is important to distinguish the high-profile Title 9/social media kangaroo courts with the workings of the actual US justice system.
  - paidleaf 8y ago
    > This statement is highly uncharitable to your interlocutor above and frankly ignorant of the history of sexual assault prosecutions in the US. Once again, we are talking about western society today, not in history. I already acknowledged in my comment that things were different in the past. > "she was engaged in dangerous behaviour - that couldn't happen to someone like me". Once again, a foreigner pushing "rape culture" rhetoric about the US and sowing divisions. Just curious, if you aren't american, why are you posting about it as if you were american? > It is important to distinguish the high-profile Title 9/social media kangaroo courts with the workings of the actual US justice system. I wasn't just talking about title IX or social media. I was talking about media, the courts and society in general. When a woman accuses a man of rape, she is believed and the man is scorned - even before trial. Stop trying to paint the US today as it was in the past or the congo.
Bromskloss 8y ago
> "why was she wearing that dress?", "why was she in the club on her own if she was in a relationship?", "why did she walk through the park at night on her own?" To call these things "victim blaming" is disingenuous, I think, because it makes it sound like someone is saying that you are guilty of rape (of yourself) if you do those things. Instead, we need to separate between two acts: rape, and subjecting yourself to danger (danger of rape, in this instance). The latter is not a crime and does not make you an accomplice of the rape, and it does not take any guilt of the rapist, but it might still be stupid and blameworthy on its own, as a separate act, even if it ends well and no rape occurs. I mean, my loved ones surely would be upset with me if I subjected myself to excessive danger, or just neglected to lock my door when I left home. The danger in question does not even have to be related to a crime. It could be recklessly climbing a mountain or a scaffold. In that case, it certainly not about taking responsibility of a wrong from a criminal and putting it on the victim – because there is no such wrong – but blame might still be reasonable. > "maybe she went home with him and just regretted it the next day" This falls in neither of the above two categories. It is just a hypothesis that has to be taken into account like any other.