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Memoirs of a Bullied Kid

121 points by froggy 16y ago

agentultra 16y ago
It's nice reading an article like this once in a while. I like to forget how horrible my life had been. I eventually moved away from the town I grew up in with no money and no prospects just to get away from the violence and constant humiliation. I struggled every day since for everything I have today. It's good to be reminded of where you came from.
- mrtron 16y ago
  Reading it definitely brought up a lot of repressed memories. Life seems so simple right now.
aspir 16y ago
This article means a great deal to me. It's good to see I wasn't alone. I was lucky in high school, because our school wrestling coach saw the rage I carried and convinced me to come out for the team. I lost 30 lbs the first year and got the skills to defend myself. Because I was just a weird guy, I still was a target, but I could protect myself and my friends who were also targets. I still carry it like a massive chip on my shoulder. I feel that it's the reason I've driven forward into endeavors with intensity. It's made me who I am today; but I still can't forgive the kids (and teachers) who made my life a hell, also in 5th grade. When I see a picture of myself as a little kid (>4 years) I get really sad for the life that kid will have a few years after taking it. That's why I bust my tail - to tell my little 4 year old self that it's worth it.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  You weren't alone - I was bullied, as was my close family. Unlike you, it ended earlier but only because the teachers finally realized how bad it had gotten. I disagree with his idea that those who are bullied needs to learn that they are loved though - I never for a moment had any doubts about my parents feelings for me, but that didn't help me end it. I have even less sympathy for the idea of telling bullies that you love them. Bullying will stop the day you hit back, they day you show them that you are no longer a safe target - one way or the other (hint it has to show them that _they_ are the small, weak person). Even showing you are under the protection of somebody more powerful (used that trick in kindergarden) will only work for so long.
  - Psyonic 16y ago
    Your advice at the end there doesn't always work. Sometimes hitting back just makes them escalate the violence.
    - tomjen3 16y ago
      I have never seen anybody hitting back for real where it didn't work.
      - btilly 16y ago
        I have. I got beaten up, and once the bully had demonstrated his ability to beat me up at will, things got worse. It is worth noting that one cause of bullying is a way for the bully to feel better about himself. In my case said bully had failed 2 grades, and so chose to pick on a smart kid who was not popular to make himself feel better.
        loewenskind 16y ago
        Too bad you weren't able to use your superior intelligence to learn BJJ (there was no way to know which martial arts worked when I was growing up). If he got you down and suddenly his arm was broken and he didn't even see how it happened I bet he would have left you alone.
        Psyonic 16y ago
        Very possible, but now the requirement is you have to fight back and win, not just fight back, which is probably asking a bit much in some cases. Some kids that get bullied even have handicaps, so this probably won't work for them.
        btilly 16y ago
        In my case I had a significant coordination problem which did NOT help.
tjarratt 16y ago
The saddest element of this story, for me, is that so many children internalize their rage and frustration and turn it against themselves. Just imagine what would be possible if everyone that was bullied could turn that anger around and use it to improve themselves, to make a difference in their world and in their community. I have to wonder how many great ideas were crushed because someone couldn't believe in themselves to see their project from conception to completion.
danilocampos 16y ago
I remember being in these spots. Growing up different isn't fun. For me, I just didn't care that much about the things other kids valued. I wanted to build things, read, learn about science and do experiments. For whatever reason, the fact that I didn't care about sports at all made me as good as an alien to my peers. The fact that my mom is a lesbian, and that I didn't know any reason why anyone should have a problem with that, didn't help things, either. So, there were school hiking trips where I had prickly pear cactus fruit pelted at me. I was pantsed at recess a couple of times. Once a little knife was held on me. More often than not, people just said unkind things to me. Getting into middle school was worse, just as the author said. There's some special vein of cruelty that emerges at that age. I happened to get lucky. Teachers noticed me, convinced my mom to let me be tested for special classes, and I found friendship in people who were more like me. At home, having a computer and learning about all I could do with it gave me extraordinary self worth that would have been wrung out of me at school. Eventually I learned to relate to people. By high school, I even got along with the jocks and other popular types, though by choice I never fell into any specific group. Looking back, the author is right. I had it bad but my bullies had it worse. My parents, at least, loved and prioritized me. I can't imagine the miserable home lives these many of these kids must have had. (edit: Although, giving it some thought, I don't know how much my kindness would have earned me from these kids.) All I know is this: my life was saved – saved – by technology. I'm not sure I'd have made it into adulthood without all the growth I gained thanks to my good ol' Performa 6100.
gchpaco 16y ago
When I was a kid I got a lot of this; the administration only really stepped in when they started stoning me (yes, throwing rocks) but otherwise it was just continuous misery. I suspect this guy probably had it worse, but there are some very eerie similarities.
brudgers 16y ago
PG's essay along similar lines: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html
- DanielRibeiro 16y ago
  This essay is just precious. A quote which sums it up very well is: If you leave a bunch of eleven-year-olds to their own devices, what you get is Lord of the Flies.
- fanboy123 16y ago
  Wow great article thanks for the link. I don't know if I agree with the statement that nerds are separated from the pack by some sort of seperate value system. I remember all the middle-upper class kids that were attractive were automatically popular unless there was something very abnormal about them. Life is pretty harsh, if you are awkward or funny looking you START off placed in a box, which makes it much more likely over time to find comfort in a book/computer rather than "being like everybody else." I think that a large component of feeling like you ended up with a different mindset due to "innate desire" is rationalization after being kicked out of the herd.
- brc 16y ago
  That essay, and the one about creating value are the two best in the collection. Schools really are a solution to the problem of what to do with kids all day. It's barbaric but it's not going anywhere.
lionhearted 16y ago
This comment will be controversial, especially for North Americans and Western Europeans. I ask you to read it and think about it a moment before reacting, and comment if you disagree. I believe what I'm about to say is true, and I'm not trying to get a rise out of people - I want to fix some problems with society. I feel for the author. I also moved around a lot as a kid. No, wasn't a military family. Just coincidences, reorganizations at work a few times in a row, changing jobs, family circumstances. Sometimes things went great and I fell into a group of good kids right away, sometimes they weren't so good. It's normal that sometimes the new kid gets shit. I understand. A little teasing is nasty, but kids can cross the line. Something like this: > John and Mike never stopped. They never gave me a day off. And while their bullying hit maximum levels within a few days of school starting, the self loathing grew until I actually hated myself. ... they started in on new bullying tactics like sneaking up and cramming food from the floor into my mouth, knocking my lunch tray to the ground, throwing dangerous objects at me, tripping me, shoving me, and pushing me. That's crossing the line. Those John and Mike kids are way past any acceptable teasing/jockeying line. What's the author advise? > And so, I will ask you now to not hate the bullies. Experience tells me that hating them, or being angry with them, will always make it worse. Instead, put your arm around them. Love them. Tell them that they are valuable. Tell them that you expect great things from them. They will stop the bullying. No, they won't. This is where I'll offend polite society. I'm not doing it to get a rise out of you. I'll tell you - this is the mainstream advice you hear growing up these days. "Love the bullies, talk it out, and they'll stop." No, that's false. That's how we got into this mess in the first place. I remember I changed schools mid-year in seventh grade when we moved. I was born in August which is the cut-off date, so I was effectively a year younger than everyone else. I was 11 years old. The middle school I transferred to was 7th, 8th, and 9th grade. Just how that district was laid out. A ninth grader - 14 or 15 years old, much bigger than me - pushed me into the lockers the third day at school. Hard. He then laughed with his friends and started to walk off. I ran after him, tackled him, and started hitting him in the face. We both got suspended. No one caused problems with me after that. I found a nice group of friends and was respected. The older kid didn't cause me any problems after that either. He didn't really acknowledge me one way or the other, we were just strangers after that, which suited me fine. And that's how you've got to do. This love the bullies thing - it's wrong. It ignores our animal nature. I've got some sets of names I'd name my sons as they're born. They're unconventional names - Cosimo Marshall or Aurelius Marshall if the boy's mother was Italian, Zhuge Marshall if he was Chinese. The boy will likely get teased. That's fine, tease back. But son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you, they've crossed a line. Fuck them up. It's the only thing these vicious freaks understand. They're wild animals. They make violence on you, you need to show them that you're the stronger, bigger animal. When someone attacks you maliciously for no reason, you need to impose your will on them. Even if you lose, lose swinging. They respect it. Be a tough fight. This "talk it out" shit doesn't work... it's been the dogma for the last 30-50 years, it assumes the nobility of human nature will win out. It doesn't. It's nonsense. It just simply doesn't work. If you're not strong enough to impose your will on someone making violence on you, then train and get stronger. If you're intelligent, it doesn't matter if the other guy is bigger than you. Take up boxing or martial arts. Brain beats brawn. Fight dirty if you have to. They shove food down your pants or whatever? As soon as he turns around, hit him in the back of the head as hard as you can. If you're much smaller, pick up a hard object and do it. My Mom is awesome. She picked up from school when I was suspended. We sat in the principal's office and she was very serious, saying yes, my son is serious about school, he never gets into problems, I don't know what happened with the fight. After we left, she took me out to lunch and said good job. I wished I'd learned that lesson earlier. Some people are animals. The ones that want to hurt you for no reason. Show them that you'll go to self-destructive lengths to defend yourself and avenge yourself upon them, and they'll stop. Also, protect others. I got into a shouting match protecting some McDonald's employees from a mob boss in Hong Kong. A riot cop came to break it up, I was almost in a fight with three mafia guys. I had two guys try to mug me the other day in a dangerous area. Bad mistake, doubled one of them over with a kick the stomach and shouted at the other one, "YOU WANT TO DIE? BACK DOWN, STAY BACK." He did, he let me walk away while his criminal buddy was doubled over. Should I have "talked" with them, "loved" them, these vicious criminals? No, they're animals. They don't understand. Teach your kid to fight back and fight smart. Protect the weak. Be hell and misery to bad people. Pacifism only works if there's someone else that's strong around to keep things together - someone who'll stick up for you. If everyone goes pacifist except the bad people, eventually one bad person with no conscience winds up ruling. No. It doesn't work. Teach your kids to fight back, fight smart, defend and assert themselves, and protect others in trouble. There's legitimately bad people in the world, barely above animals, and strength is the only thing they respect. Assert yourself.
znt 16y ago
I guess this place has higher percentage of the bullied than other communities, so let me share my bits: I was the little kid with a big head and glasses which was the equivalent of "bully magnet". I got beaten up during kindergarten (by kids smaller than me), got beaten up in elementary school, secondary school, high school. Bullying kind of stopped in university because bullies couldn't pass the entrance tests heh. And the funny thing is, I asked my family for help while I was getting bullied. I told my father that "These kids at school ganged up on me and while one was holding my arms the other one punched me". His response was "You shouldn't respond to them, they'll be gone soon". Unfortunately, "not responding" while you're getting punched is not a very efficient defense technique. So my dad didn't teach me how to defend myself, he didn't contact school managers, he didn't do anything. And unfortunately this happened more than once. It is very depressing for a small kid to lose his trust in his father. And that happened to me when I was 9. I knew no way to stop the bullying so naturally I focused my frustration on my poor little sister. I made her cry a lot. I tortured animals. Anything weaker than me received my wrath. And all this time my father was thinking I was a bad naughty boy who should have learned some manners. Every parent should know that they won't be able to protect their kids from every harm. But they can prepare them, teach them, educate them about the potential dangers they may ever face and support them if such situation arises. I never had that kind of support, but my kids will have that. Oh and they'll learn how to land a flying headbutt onto a bully's nose if they get close enough.
- varjag 16y ago
  > I knew no way to stop the bullying so naturally I focused my frustration on my poor little sister. I made her cry a lot. I tortured animals. Anything weaker than me received my wrath. And all this time my father was thinking I was a bad naughty boy who should have learned some manners. You probably also know why bullies did that to you. Never met one bully who hasn't some shit going on home.
djhworld 16y ago
Here in the UK, many schools have a zero tolerance policy to bullying, but this is nothing more than an empty gesture. As soon as a kid tells a teacher about their bullying problems, the bullying will most certainly not stop as the school as no power over what goes on beyond the school gates. Bullies are never punished for their actions, which is why this problem always perpetuates.
- hugh3 16y ago
  There's no point in having a zero-tolerance policy if you don't have any useful punishments to dole out. Some kids are afraid of getting detention, but the ones who aren't are the ones who are causing problems. This is why I believe in bringing back corporal punishment in schools. It shouldn't be used too regularly, but it's important that for every child there is a punishment which they really fear.
Dove 16y ago
I disagree strongly with the sentiment that bullies just need love, that they're only doing it because they are hurting too. People are diverse, so I won't deny that perhaps that's sometimes true. But I think it would be more accurate to say that bullies do it because it's fun and above all because they can. In short, bullies need to face punishments with teeth. And the bullied need to have access to a justice system they can trust to actually work. Something like this: http://www.sudval.org/05_onepersononevote.html http://www.sudval.org/05_onepersononevote.html (scroll down about halfway to "When you were young", A True Story). Look, our justice system as adults distinguishes between aggression and self defense. But for some reason, we treat conflict between kids as if it's everybody's fault, and everything's okay once it stops. That's unjust, and is the root cause: adults that treat order and convenience as more important than justice. When I was a kid, I remember complaining that my (three years younger) sister hit me. The first thing my mom asked? "What did you do to make her do that?" Well, of course I answered, "Nothing," but it plainly wasn't true. Who picks a fight with someone twice their size? And over the course of the discussion it came out that I had taken her toy and teased her, and you know what? My sister got a free pass. I got in trouble. How about that old fashioned rule, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all?" How about, if I catch you insulting or belittling someone, you have to be their servant for half an hour -- get their water, sharpen their pencils, that sort of thing? How about a justice system that treats allegations of teasing and insulting as serious matters, and investigates to get to the bottom of things? How about a system that is concerned about kids' antisocial behavior, not because it is currently bothering the adults, but because of the effects it has on both victim and aggressor? How about a system that punished physical violence harshly if it was aggressive, and leniently or not at all if it's defensive? How about a system that says, "If you hit back with the aim of making the other kid stop, and you stop as soon as he does, we'll hold you blameless?" You know, the same deal adults get. (By popular judgement, anyway, if not always in court.) How about a system that responded to kids' experiments in evil with love and affection and attention, encouraging them to delve deeper and teaching them that behaving cruelly toward others is a great way to get all the stuff they want? Never mind on that last one.
- lwhi 16y ago
  Complex problems don't have simple solutions. Unfortunately a lot of the time, a child who's victimising another child will be projecting emotions that they're feeling, due to abuse / difficulties they're experiencing themselves. To think that the problem can be hugged out is crazy - it's not going to happen. I think the first most useful thing to do is to teach the child to fight back. Often a change of attitude - being able to have the confidence to say 'no' and to stand up against adversity, is enough to change the tack the abuser's behaviour. Violence isn't necessary - and I don't think it should ever be encouraged .. but taking a stand is an entirely valid response. But secondly the root causes of the abuser's behaviour do need to be looked at - and a simple response isn't going to solve these problems. It would be nice if the simple idea of 'punishment' could resolve the behaviour - because it would require minimal effort - but realistically it wont. Reforming bad behaviour involves understanding what the person involved needs - sometimes that will be love and understanding. All children have complex emotional and psychological needs; if these needs are neglected, something has to give .. and usually does.
andrewl 16y ago
There's a lot of good information on this site: http://www.bullyonline.org/ http://www.bullyonline.org/ It's poorly-organized, but it's worth digging around. I gave a printout of the profile of a workplace bully (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm) to a woman I work with who was facing severe bullying from her boss, and she said she got so engrossed in it that she missed her stop on the train. I knew the bully as well and it was uncanny how well the description matched him. It was like he had a well-known disease and we were reading a textbook description of its symptoms. That was workplace bullying, but the site also has information on bullying in schools.
pasbesoin 16y ago
If I ever have kids, they get martial arts training. From someone who emphasizes self-awareness and a productive discipline, but who does not skimp on the full range of effective techniques and the physical training to achieve them. They may like it more or less. Regardless, it will be a part of their schooling. Bullying ends when you end it. There may be more than one way to accomplish this, but when you're outnumbered and out of reach of any help, you need to be able to manage the physical situation. (This does not necessarily mean the ability to defeat an arbitrary number of opponents; it also means being able to reason ways to extricate oneself, etc.) And, sooner or later, you'll be there. This is true throughout society and throughout its various situations; cooperation is limited, and you're going to end up facing difficult situations on your own. "Civility" is a luxury that is not always available. Being persistently without control can become a self-fulfilling situation. Those neural pathways get burned in -- just as they do with everything else we learn particularly through repeated experience. I don't want my kids to be placed psychologically in that corner. I also don't want them to place other in that corner, which is why the physical aspects are not sufficient. P.S. I've also learned that some physical injuries can be irreversible. It doesn't do you much good to know that a bully will eventually "go away" or "one day learn", if in the meantime you have permanent scars and worse to deal with.
- DifE-Q 16y ago
  As somebody who knows...skip the traditional martial arts and get them into wrestling and Brazilian Jui Jitsu. Anything else will just turn into an embarrassing situation.
  - Twisol 16y ago
    As with anything, YMMV. I've taken Karate lessons (specifically shaolin kempo) since I was 4 years old, and I couldn't be happier. Just pick something that makes sense.
  - dagw 16y ago
    100% agreement. Simple rule, if your martial art training's only form of sparring consists of defending against pre-defined attacks or attacks done at less than full speed, then it simple won't be effective in a fight. Also if you only learn how to hit people for points rather than for damage then chances are that's how you'll hit when you end up in a real fight.
cparedes 16y ago
I think my friend said it best during a conversation we were having a few weeks ago: Him: "So, what was high school like for you?" Me: "It was pretty shitty. I didn't really fit in anywhere." Him: "That makes sense - this sense of being the outcast always seems to carry over to anyone's next endeavor." And I can see that, too. I never really fit in anywhere, not even with the nerds nor the AP kids. While everyone was postering and bullying me around, I worked on Linux machines in the back area of an IT office in our school. Then after school, I would usually go home and hacked on Linux and played video games all day. It was pretty soul crushing, though I'm better for it - now I work on UNIX systems all day, and I couldn't have asked for a better job than this. However, I still struggle with depression and feeling like an "outcast" no matter where I go. Maybe my friend is right - this sense of ennui was a bit of a carry over from my high school (and even college) days. (for those wondering, one of my old alma maters, Seattle University, was a hell hole. It was high school extended to another four years. I didn't want any more of that shit.)
elblanco 16y ago
I say this not as a kid who was bullied, but who had many friends who were bullied. And being a guy, this really applies to guys, girl bullying is a different dynamic. The best way to overcome a childhood bully is to get in an old fashioned schoolyard fistfight with them. It doesn't matter if you loose, just don't loose badly. Fight them until your face is bloodied and your nose is broken, until your knuckles hurt, and you can barely move. Cheat, use blunt objects (no biting or weirdness), sucker punch, tackle, throw dirt in their eyes, whatever. No sharp weapons or anything that'll do permanent damage. You aren't fighting for honor here, this isn't feudal Japan. You're fighting for street credit. If you're winning, stop when he stops. Make the exchange free of emotion and a cold business negotiation. If he tries to fight you with a bunch of buddies, do whatever you can to move it in front of a neutral crowd. 9 times out of 10, they won't even show for the fight. When they do, put on a good show. If you make it so troublesome to be a target, no matter how weird you are, they'll leave you alone. You have to make it a bad equation for them to pick on you. They pick on you because something is bad in their lives and they have to pick on somebody and by not fighting back you make it easy for them to use you as the outlet for their problems. Make it not easy, introduce friction into that equation. If you do fight, 9 times out of 10, you'll end up being their friend and most of the time you'll find out that the bullies really have shitty life stories and need a friend. Treat the bully like an angry dog, don't turn your back, don't run. Slow movements. He's not bullying you out of a rational decision, he's doing it out of instinct. He's a dumb and dangerous animal you should treat that way. In my experience one fight is generally enough.
rikthevik 16y ago
God damn, is childhood a tough time. Life seems really easy these days. Grade five felt about 10 years long. Maybe I don't remember how bad it was, but I find myself thinking of the kids who were doing the bullying. The one guy became an alcoholic in High School because his dad needed someone to drink with during the day. School wasn't good, but when I got home I was mostly in the clear. It's hard to imagine how a child who felt constant fear and violence at home could do anything but impose those things on others. I hope that I can instill in my children both the skills to resist bullying for themselves, but also the sense of justice to fight it when it's done to others.
daylast 16y ago
I am in my thirties now and it still utterly astonishes me the degree to which the school administrators, teachers and parents in my high school viewed bullying with blithe ignorance. I was never bullied myself and I was never a bully, but I witnessed atrocities that would land any adult perpetrator behind bars for several years. Sexual assaults of mentally handicapped kids, kids having their heads forced into the water of a dirty toilet, kids shot with pellet guns during class, on-going intimidation, beatings, etc. Amazingly, this is just the stuff that I personally witnessed...I'm sure worse things happened that I never saw. All of this transpired with virtually zero repercussions for the bullies involved. It was truly sad. What is even more sad is that the adults at the school essentially turned a blind eye to this behaviour. I sure hope things have changed since then.
bonsaitree 16y ago
As a fellow bullied child, I can empathize with the treatment, but I could not disagree more with the proposed solutions. You simply can not treat children as adults nor can all family situations be adapted to yield the necessary love & care required to raise a non-bully. Biologically, children also don't have the same ability to morally reason and weigh present actions against future consequences. There's also a good deal of evidence which suggests some personalities and brains have a preternatural inclination towards aggressive actions and violence. Children also learn, nearly from birth, how to please their parents and will often, as the author did, shield their "shame" at being bullied. I was taught by my father, quite simply, to "always stand up for your rights" and that "dignity itself is worth fighting for". As a kid, I never started a fight, but I ALWAYS responded to violence with violence. For many bullies, violence is really is the only social interchange they understand and the attention they receive from the public physical domination of others is their main source of self-esteem. I got into my fair share of physical altercations (which I lost more than I won) and subsequent interactions with school disciplinary actions. Nevertheless, win or lose, I never regretted any fight as they were 100% effective at preventing future bullying. If a bully "gets bullied back", they back down. If a bully "wins a fight", they know you're always ready to throw-down and take the full measure of consequences so they move on to easier "prey". School systems are different, but at least in my case, it always helped out with the school authorities to have the higher GPA and be recognized socially as the "good kid that got in trouble". Finally, one learns at a visceral level, the numerous costs and few benefits of violence. Violence becomes a viable option, internalized very concretely, as the option of absolute last resort.
arohann 16y ago
I went to school in India and while there was some mild bullying now and again it was nowhere near as bad as this. I find it surprising how big a problem it is here in the US especially at the junior and high school level. In India the problem is with hazing (called "ragging") at the college level. Why do teachers stand by and let bullying continue unabated ?
Scared31YearOld 16y ago
Dan's open some seriously deep wounds..... Am a 31 year old and this is a throw away account. I have asked many questions here on HN and some, read correctly, clearly showed my level of self-belief. Since the age of 13 I was bullied, very little physical, mainly regarding my appearence and colour. I am Indian, a little darker than my fellow indian school mates. As I grew up, the the name calling and the playground bullying started. This got worse as I got in to my teens. The same people got the opportunity to bully me for around 12 hours of the day. This serious torment has rendered me to the point of taking the suicide option on a daily basis. You would be correct in assuming "he wrote the last sentence as present and not in the past.". You see, as a fellow HN'er, I can bearly program. I have not been able to concentrate on anything. I scraped through a degree, blagged my way in to jobs. My life has always been about planning, planing the escape from classmates, planing how to get out of school without being noticed, planning how to walk past some classmates on the pavement on the opposite side. This, without realising, has had a dramatic effect on my life. I left my family, I left everyone I knew to "get away". I planned to do this and planned to do that, but nothing materialised because the constant bullying has lead me to be down and depressed every step of the way. Today, I earn over $60K+ working in Telecoms. I am shy, dont have the confidence to approach women and yet, managed to somehow marry a beautiful, kind hearted women but she has never known this about me. I hate myself. I still feel, ugly, fat and black (this is not in the black/white way racial way, but in a dark skinned highly unattactive way)....all those thing I got called years ago still affect me today and I am 31 years old. I am qualifed, experianced and confident in walking in to an interview and getting the job, but my level of confidence ends there. Once in the job, am subdued in to the corner by my own doing, loose all motivation, feel depressed and just want to leave....all that after 2 weeks of starting a new job, yet I love technology, I love neworking, programming and love being a techie! What is wrong with me? How do I 'snap' out of this? Is it even possible? am I depressed??? My doctor came to this conclusion 2 months ago. He died recently so nothing was done about it. I have been involved in some small startup here in the UK. I have buried myself in them and throughly enjoyed it, albeit, with the constant nagging from within of failure, unattractivenessno, no self-love etc etc. None have been successful for their own reasons. I long to do a startup, I long to make a successful product. I dont have any love for designer clothes, fancy cars or big houses. Is simply wish to learn to code and create a much loved and successful product. I long to learn how to program correctly, effiecently but at each step, I fail with lack of concentration (even basic CSS is not happening), pressure from within and just wanting to get away from it all therefore loosing time and forgeting what I learnt. I wish I could go back and stand up to those bullies, I wish I didnt let them get to me, I wish myself to be dead to this day. I have my religious beliefs which stop me from commiting suicide, but god knows I have been close. I am 31, and I still cry myself to sleep for being a failure, all this, without my wife of 10 years, knowing a single thing I've wrote above. Bullies...Please Please Stop It. Any advice would be helpful.
joelhooks 16y ago
One aspect of home educating our four kids is that none of them have ever been bullied.
- phpnode 16y ago
  Right, but unfortunately bullying is a part of life and learning how to deal with it is an important life skill. How will you teach your children to deal with this kind of aggressive confrontation? School isn't just about academic education, it's about social education, I'm genuinely curious how you can achieve this in a home school setting
  - arethuza 16y ago
    Although both my wife and I went to state schools we sent our son to a private school and it is pretty clear to me that the biggest advantage is the social education - which is probably why there is such an emphasis on team sports (particularly rugby). Even though it is a very well run school there is bullying - there is always bullying of some kind in just about every environment (especially workplaces). As far as I am concerned the only way to deal with it is to recognize that the problem is endemic and teach everyone how to deal with it - the approach I told my son was "if anyone bullies you, punch them as hard as you can on the end of their nose - I'll back you up 100% if this causes a problem".
  - DifE-Q 16y ago
    I know many home school children, and the common idea that they are not socially educated, or well adjusted, is a myth. Most home schooled children do not sit at home all day - cordoned away from the world. They are usually involved in as much, if not more, activities outside of the home as public schooled children. They have friends in their neighborhoods, and friends they meet in home school groups and their home school activities. As a matter of fact the home schooled children I know are not only generally smarter, and the adults (home schooled) more successful and happier in life, but the kids are far more socially adjusted than the kids that go to public schools. Public schools by in large create social constructs that do not exist in the adult world. The home schooled children can converse and interact in a healthy way with both young and old - instead of their exclusive peer group. I home school my children. Yet we have an active church social life, they take piano, wrestling, archery and numerous other peer group events. Plus, on beautiful fall and spring days - when most public school kids are shut up behind brick walls wasting their time in classes with 30+ children learning all of nothing - my kids are outside riding their bikes, exploring the neighborhood, etc. The other advantage is that if I see other children mistreating my children, or if I see my children mistreating other children (or adults) - I can provide the proper discipline and education in the matter; whereas a teacher wouldn't even think to take the time and deal with the problem. This is not to say I helicopter my children - but I am more aware of issues than a single teacher might that has to keep track of 30 to a 100 or more students at a time and I care more than a teacher would. And thus we come to why we are having this discussion in the first place. The article was written by a guy who had a teacher that was not really connected to him, and his parents were not aware enough of the problem to notice and do anything about it. And the bully's parents the same... What could have happened with this guy? Had something not turned in his life, he, like many others may have committed suicide and our world would be at a loss for whatever service and good he has thus far rendered. I think the question really should be this: How is it possible that public school education can teach PROPER socialization - when the evidence and or track record is that these schools produce anti-social behavior and dysfunctional children at such a high level?
yardie 16y ago
Honestly, I can't imagine what the solution is these days. Fight back? maybe. Maybe not. For my son I can say the most important thing is to assess your enemy effectively. I've lost a few friends through school violence. One was shot in the head at a Christmas party, the other was ambushed, beaten into unconsciousness, and never woke up. When I was a young kid the worse you could expect was to beaten badly, by the time I finished high school clear, PVC backpacks and metal detectors at the entrances were the rule. My high school wasn't in the best neighborhood and my first experience with a gun (9mm) was some kid showing it off and pointing it at random students. The point is just know what's at stake before jumping into MAD mode. You may find out the other guy is really ready to go nuclear. In primary school, bullies are easy to figure out, they are little sociopaths that use violence. By high school their little brains have developed and some may be full on psycho.
ajb 16y ago
In some cultures - especially England - insults are a friendship overture. (Yes, it's stupid, but it's the way things are.) What that means, is that the optimal response is to insult back - laughing. not to ignore it and not to take umbrage. No, I'm not saying that all bullies are 'just trying to make friends'. They're not, some of them are vicious shits. But if you live in such a culture, your kid needs to know about it or he will never make friends (I'm not sure if this applies to girls). It will seem like every other kid is out to get them. Laughingly insulting back says 'I have respect for myself, and I am willing to be friends'. I didn't learn this while I was a kid.

121 points by froggy 16y ago

It's nice reading an article like this once in a while. I like to forget how horrible my life had been. I eventually moved away from the town I grew up in with no money and no prospects just to get away from the violence and constant humiliation. I struggled every day since for everything I have today. It's good to be reminded of where you came from.

mrtron 16y ago
Reading it definitely brought up a lot of repressed memories. Life seems so simple right now.

aspir 16y ago

This article means a great deal to me. It's good to see I wasn't alone. I was lucky in high school, because our school wrestling coach saw the rage I carried and convinced me to come out for the team. I lost 30 lbs the first year and got the skills to defend myself. Because I was just a weird guy, I still was a target, but I could protect myself and my friends who were also targets. I still carry it like a massive chip on my shoulder. I feel that it's the reason I've driven forward into endeavors with intensity. It's made me who I am today; but I still can't forgive the kids (and teachers) who made my life a hell, also in 5th grade. When I see a picture of myself as a little kid (>4 years) I get really sad for the life that kid will have a few years after taking it. That's why I bust my tail - to tell my little 4 year old self that it's worth it.

tomjen3 16y ago
You weren't alone - I was bullied, as was my close family. Unlike you, it ended earlier but only because the teachers finally realized how bad it had gotten. I disagree with his idea that those who are bullied needs to learn that they are loved though - I never for a moment had any doubts about my parents feelings for me, but that didn't help me end it. I have even less sympathy for the idea of telling bullies that you love them. Bullying will stop the day you hit back, they day you show them that you are no longer a safe target - one way or the other (hint it has to show them that _they_ are the small, weak person). Even showing you are under the protection of somebody more powerful (used that trick in kindergarden) will only work for so long.
- Psyonic 16y ago
  Your advice at the end there doesn't always work. Sometimes hitting back just makes them escalate the violence.
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    I have never seen anybody hitting back for real where it didn't work.
    - btilly 16y ago
      I have. I got beaten up, and once the bully had demonstrated his ability to beat me up at will, things got worse. It is worth noting that one cause of bullying is a way for the bully to feel better about himself. In my case said bully had failed 2 grades, and so chose to pick on a smart kid who was not popular to make himself feel better.
      - loewenskind 16y ago
        Too bad you weren't able to use your superior intelligence to learn BJJ (there was no way to know which martial arts worked when I was growing up). If he got you down and suddenly his arm was broken and he didn't even see how it happened I bet he would have left you alone.
        Psyonic 16y ago
        Very possible, but now the requirement is you have to fight back and win, not just fight back, which is probably asking a bit much in some cases. Some kids that get bullied even have handicaps, so this probably won't work for them.
        btilly 16y ago
        In my case I had a significant coordination problem which did NOT help.

tjarratt 16y ago

The saddest element of this story, for me, is that so many children internalize their rage and frustration and turn it against themselves. Just imagine what would be possible if everyone that was bullied could turn that anger around and use it to improve themselves, to make a difference in their world and in their community. I have to wonder how many great ideas were crushed because someone couldn't believe in themselves to see their project from conception to completion.

danilocampos 16y ago

I remember being in these spots. Growing up different isn't fun. For me, I just didn't care that much about the things other kids valued. I wanted to build things, read, learn about science and do experiments. For whatever reason, the fact that I didn't care about sports at all made me as good as an alien to my peers. The fact that my mom is a lesbian, and that I didn't know any reason why anyone should have a problem with that, didn't help things, either. So, there were school hiking trips where I had prickly pear cactus fruit pelted at me. I was pantsed at recess a couple of times. Once a little knife was held on me. More often than not, people just said unkind things to me. Getting into middle school was worse, just as the author said. There's some special vein of cruelty that emerges at that age. I happened to get lucky. Teachers noticed me, convinced my mom to let me be tested for special classes, and I found friendship in people who were more like me. At home, having a computer and learning about all I could do with it gave me extraordinary self worth that would have been wrung out of me at school. Eventually I learned to relate to people. By high school, I even got along with the jocks and other popular types, though by choice I never fell into any specific group. Looking back, the author is right. I had it bad but my bullies had it worse. My parents, at least, loved and prioritized me. I can't imagine the miserable home lives these many of these kids must have had. (edit: Although, giving it some thought, I don't know how much my kindness would have earned me from these kids.) All I know is this: my life was saved – saved – by technology. I'm not sure I'd have made it into adulthood without all the growth I gained thanks to my good ol' Performa 6100.

gchpaco 16y ago

When I was a kid I got a lot of this; the administration only really stepped in when they started stoning me (yes, throwing rocks) but otherwise it was just continuous misery. I suspect this guy probably had it worse, but there are some very eerie similarities.

brudgers 16y ago

PG's essay along similar lines: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

DanielRibeiro 16y ago
This essay is just precious. A quote which sums it up very well is: If you leave a bunch of eleven-year-olds to their own devices, what you get is Lord of the Flies.
fanboy123 16y ago
Wow great article thanks for the link. I don't know if I agree with the statement that nerds are separated from the pack by some sort of seperate value system. I remember all the middle-upper class kids that were attractive were automatically popular unless there was something very abnormal about them. Life is pretty harsh, if you are awkward or funny looking you START off placed in a box, which makes it much more likely over time to find comfort in a book/computer rather than "being like everybody else." I think that a large component of feeling like you ended up with a different mindset due to "innate desire" is rationalization after being kicked out of the herd.
brc 16y ago
That essay, and the one about creating value are the two best in the collection. Schools really are a solution to the problem of what to do with kids all day. It's barbaric but it's not going anywhere.

lionhearted 16y ago

This comment will be controversial, especially for North Americans and Western Europeans. I ask you to read it and think about it a moment before reacting, and comment if you disagree. I believe what I'm about to say is true, and I'm not trying to get a rise out of people - I want to fix some problems with society. I feel for the author. I also moved around a lot as a kid. No, wasn't a military family. Just coincidences, reorganizations at work a few times in a row, changing jobs, family circumstances. Sometimes things went great and I fell into a group of good kids right away, sometimes they weren't so good. It's normal that sometimes the new kid gets shit. I understand. A little teasing is nasty, but kids can cross the line. Something like this: > John and Mike never stopped. They never gave me a day off. And while their bullying hit maximum levels within a few days of school starting, the self loathing grew until I actually hated myself. ... they started in on new bullying tactics like sneaking up and cramming food from the floor into my mouth, knocking my lunch tray to the ground, throwing dangerous objects at me, tripping me, shoving me, and pushing me. That's crossing the line. Those John and Mike kids are way past any acceptable teasing/jockeying line. What's the author advise? > And so, I will ask you now to not hate the bullies. Experience tells me that hating them, or being angry with them, will always make it worse. Instead, put your arm around them. Love them. Tell them that they are valuable. Tell them that you expect great things from them. They will stop the bullying. No, they won't. This is where I'll offend polite society. I'm not doing it to get a rise out of you. I'll tell you - this is the mainstream advice you hear growing up these days. "Love the bullies, talk it out, and they'll stop." No, that's false. That's how we got into this mess in the first place. I remember I changed schools mid-year in seventh grade when we moved. I was born in August which is the cut-off date, so I was effectively a year younger than everyone else. I was 11 years old. The middle school I transferred to was 7th, 8th, and 9th grade. Just how that district was laid out. A ninth grader - 14 or 15 years old, much bigger than me - pushed me into the lockers the third day at school. Hard. He then laughed with his friends and started to walk off. I ran after him, tackled him, and started hitting him in the face. We both got suspended. No one caused problems with me after that. I found a nice group of friends and was respected. The older kid didn't cause me any problems after that either. He didn't really acknowledge me one way or the other, we were just strangers after that, which suited me fine. And that's how you've got to do. This love the bullies thing - it's wrong. It ignores our animal nature. I've got some sets of names I'd name my sons as they're born. They're unconventional names - Cosimo Marshall or Aurelius Marshall if the boy's mother was Italian, Zhuge Marshall if he was Chinese. The boy will likely get teased. That's fine, tease back. But son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you, they've crossed a line. Fuck them up. It's the only thing these vicious freaks understand. They're wild animals. They make violence on you, you need to show them that you're the stronger, bigger animal. When someone attacks you maliciously for no reason, you need to impose your will on them. Even if you lose, lose swinging. They respect it. Be a tough fight. This "talk it out" shit doesn't work... it's been the dogma for the last 30-50 years, it assumes the nobility of human nature will win out. It doesn't. It's nonsense. It just simply doesn't work. If you're not strong enough to impose your will on someone making violence on you, then train and get stronger. If you're intelligent, it doesn't matter if the other guy is bigger than you. Take up boxing or martial arts. Brain beats brawn. Fight dirty if you have to. They shove food down your pants or whatever? As soon as he turns around, hit him in the back of the head as hard as you can. If you're much smaller, pick up a hard object and do it. My Mom is awesome. She picked up from school when I was suspended. We sat in the principal's office and she was very serious, saying yes, my son is serious about school, he never gets into problems, I don't know what happened with the fight. After we left, she took me out to lunch and said good job. I wished I'd learned that lesson earlier. Some people are animals. The ones that want to hurt you for no reason. Show them that you'll go to self-destructive lengths to defend yourself and avenge yourself upon them, and they'll stop. Also, protect others. I got into a shouting match protecting some McDonald's employees from a mob boss in Hong Kong. A riot cop came to break it up, I was almost in a fight with three mafia guys. I had two guys try to mug me the other day in a dangerous area. Bad mistake, doubled one of them over with a kick the stomach and shouted at the other one, "YOU WANT TO DIE? BACK DOWN, STAY BACK." He did, he let me walk away while his criminal buddy was doubled over. Should I have "talked" with them, "loved" them, these vicious criminals? No, they're animals. They don't understand. Teach your kid to fight back and fight smart. Protect the weak. Be hell and misery to bad people. Pacifism only works if there's someone else that's strong around to keep things together - someone who'll stick up for you. If everyone goes pacifist except the bad people, eventually one bad person with no conscience winds up ruling. No. It doesn't work. Teach your kids to fight back, fight smart, defend and assert themselves, and protect others in trouble. There's legitimately bad people in the world, barely above animals, and strength is the only thing they respect. Assert yourself.

znt 16y ago

I guess this place has higher percentage of the bullied than other communities, so let me share my bits: I was the little kid with a big head and glasses which was the equivalent of "bully magnet". I got beaten up during kindergarten (by kids smaller than me), got beaten up in elementary school, secondary school, high school. Bullying kind of stopped in university because bullies couldn't pass the entrance tests heh. And the funny thing is, I asked my family for help while I was getting bullied. I told my father that "These kids at school ganged up on me and while one was holding my arms the other one punched me". His response was "You shouldn't respond to them, they'll be gone soon". Unfortunately, "not responding" while you're getting punched is not a very efficient defense technique. So my dad didn't teach me how to defend myself, he didn't contact school managers, he didn't do anything. And unfortunately this happened more than once. It is very depressing for a small kid to lose his trust in his father. And that happened to me when I was 9. I knew no way to stop the bullying so naturally I focused my frustration on my poor little sister. I made her cry a lot. I tortured animals. Anything weaker than me received my wrath. And all this time my father was thinking I was a bad naughty boy who should have learned some manners. Every parent should know that they won't be able to protect their kids from every harm. But they can prepare them, teach them, educate them about the potential dangers they may ever face and support them if such situation arises. I never had that kind of support, but my kids will have that. Oh and they'll learn how to land a flying headbutt onto a bully's nose if they get close enough.

varjag 16y ago
> I knew no way to stop the bullying so naturally I focused my frustration on my poor little sister. I made her cry a lot. I tortured animals. Anything weaker than me received my wrath. And all this time my father was thinking I was a bad naughty boy who should have learned some manners. You probably also know why bullies did that to you. Never met one bully who hasn't some shit going on home.

djhworld 16y ago

Here in the UK, many schools have a zero tolerance policy to bullying, but this is nothing more than an empty gesture. As soon as a kid tells a teacher about their bullying problems, the bullying will most certainly not stop as the school as no power over what goes on beyond the school gates. Bullies are never punished for their actions, which is why this problem always perpetuates.

hugh3 16y ago
There's no point in having a zero-tolerance policy if you don't have any useful punishments to dole out. Some kids are afraid of getting detention, but the ones who aren't are the ones who are causing problems. This is why I believe in bringing back corporal punishment in schools. It shouldn't be used too regularly, but it's important that for every child there is a punishment which they really fear.

Dove 16y ago

I disagree strongly with the sentiment that bullies just need love, that they're only doing it because they are hurting too. People are diverse, so I won't deny that perhaps that's sometimes true. But I think it would be more accurate to say that bullies do it because it's fun and above all because they can. In short, bullies need to face punishments with teeth. And the bullied need to have access to a justice system they can trust to actually work. Something like this: http://www.sudval.org/05_onepersononevote.html http://www.sudval.org/05_onepersononevote.html (scroll down about halfway to "When you were young", A True Story). Look, our justice system as adults distinguishes between aggression and self defense. But for some reason, we treat conflict between kids as if it's everybody's fault, and everything's okay once it stops. That's unjust, and is the root cause: adults that treat order and convenience as more important than justice. When I was a kid, I remember complaining that my (three years younger) sister hit me. The first thing my mom asked? "What did you do to make her do that?" Well, of course I answered, "Nothing," but it plainly wasn't true. Who picks a fight with someone twice their size? And over the course of the discussion it came out that I had taken her toy and teased her, and you know what? My sister got a free pass. I got in trouble. How about that old fashioned rule, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all?" How about, if I catch you insulting or belittling someone, you have to be their servant for half an hour -- get their water, sharpen their pencils, that sort of thing? How about a justice system that treats allegations of teasing and insulting as serious matters, and investigates to get to the bottom of things? How about a system that is concerned about kids' antisocial behavior, not because it is currently bothering the adults, but because of the effects it has on both victim and aggressor? How about a system that punished physical violence harshly if it was aggressive, and leniently or not at all if it's defensive? How about a system that says, "If you hit back with the aim of making the other kid stop, and you stop as soon as he does, we'll hold you blameless?" You know, the same deal adults get. (By popular judgement, anyway, if not always in court.) How about a system that responded to kids' experiments in evil with love and affection and attention, encouraging them to delve deeper and teaching them that behaving cruelly toward others is a great way to get all the stuff they want? Never mind on that last one.

lwhi 16y ago
Complex problems don't have simple solutions. Unfortunately a lot of the time, a child who's victimising another child will be projecting emotions that they're feeling, due to abuse / difficulties they're experiencing themselves. To think that the problem can be hugged out is crazy - it's not going to happen. I think the first most useful thing to do is to teach the child to fight back. Often a change of attitude - being able to have the confidence to say 'no' and to stand up against adversity, is enough to change the tack the abuser's behaviour. Violence isn't necessary - and I don't think it should ever be encouraged .. but taking a stand is an entirely valid response. But secondly the root causes of the abuser's behaviour do need to be looked at - and a simple response isn't going to solve these problems. It would be nice if the simple idea of 'punishment' could resolve the behaviour - because it would require minimal effort - but realistically it wont. Reforming bad behaviour involves understanding what the person involved needs - sometimes that will be love and understanding. All children have complex emotional and psychological needs; if these needs are neglected, something has to give .. and usually does.

andrewl 16y ago

There's a lot of good information on this site: http://www.bullyonline.org/ http://www.bullyonline.org/ It's poorly-organized, but it's worth digging around. I gave a printout of the profile of a workplace bully (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm) to a woman I work with who was facing severe bullying from her boss, and she said she got so engrossed in it that she missed her stop on the train. I knew the bully as well and it was uncanny how well the description matched him. It was like he had a well-known disease and we were reading a textbook description of its symptoms. That was workplace bullying, but the site also has information on bullying in schools.

pasbesoin 16y ago

If I ever have kids, they get martial arts training. From someone who emphasizes self-awareness and a productive discipline, but who does not skimp on the full range of effective techniques and the physical training to achieve them. They may like it more or less. Regardless, it will be a part of their schooling. Bullying ends when you end it. There may be more than one way to accomplish this, but when you're outnumbered and out of reach of any help, you need to be able to manage the physical situation. (This does not necessarily mean the ability to defeat an arbitrary number of opponents; it also means being able to reason ways to extricate oneself, etc.) And, sooner or later, you'll be there. This is true throughout society and throughout its various situations; cooperation is limited, and you're going to end up facing difficult situations on your own. "Civility" is a luxury that is not always available. Being persistently without control can become a self-fulfilling situation. Those neural pathways get burned in -- just as they do with everything else we learn particularly through repeated experience. I don't want my kids to be placed psychologically in that corner. I also don't want them to place other in that corner, which is why the physical aspects are not sufficient. P.S. I've also learned that some physical injuries can be irreversible. It doesn't do you much good to know that a bully will eventually "go away" or "one day learn", if in the meantime you have permanent scars and worse to deal with.

DifE-Q 16y ago
As somebody who knows...skip the traditional martial arts and get them into wrestling and Brazilian Jui Jitsu. Anything else will just turn into an embarrassing situation.
- Twisol 16y ago
  As with anything, YMMV. I've taken Karate lessons (specifically shaolin kempo) since I was 4 years old, and I couldn't be happier. Just pick something that makes sense.
- dagw 16y ago
  100% agreement. Simple rule, if your martial art training's only form of sparring consists of defending against pre-defined attacks or attacks done at less than full speed, then it simple won't be effective in a fight. Also if you only learn how to hit people for points rather than for damage then chances are that's how you'll hit when you end up in a real fight.

cparedes 16y ago

I think my friend said it best during a conversation we were having a few weeks ago: Him: "So, what was high school like for you?" Me: "It was pretty shitty. I didn't really fit in anywhere." Him: "That makes sense - this sense of being the outcast always seems to carry over to anyone's next endeavor." And I can see that, too. I never really fit in anywhere, not even with the nerds nor the AP kids. While everyone was postering and bullying me around, I worked on Linux machines in the back area of an IT office in our school. Then after school, I would usually go home and hacked on Linux and played video games all day. It was pretty soul crushing, though I'm better for it - now I work on UNIX systems all day, and I couldn't have asked for a better job than this. However, I still struggle with depression and feeling like an "outcast" no matter where I go. Maybe my friend is right - this sense of ennui was a bit of a carry over from my high school (and even college) days. (for those wondering, one of my old alma maters, Seattle University, was a hell hole. It was high school extended to another four years. I didn't want any more of that shit.)

elblanco 16y ago

I say this not as a kid who was bullied, but who had many friends who were bullied. And being a guy, this really applies to guys, girl bullying is a different dynamic. The best way to overcome a childhood bully is to get in an old fashioned schoolyard fistfight with them. It doesn't matter if you loose, just don't loose badly. Fight them until your face is bloodied and your nose is broken, until your knuckles hurt, and you can barely move. Cheat, use blunt objects (no biting or weirdness), sucker punch, tackle, throw dirt in their eyes, whatever. No sharp weapons or anything that'll do permanent damage. You aren't fighting for honor here, this isn't feudal Japan. You're fighting for street credit. If you're winning, stop when he stops. Make the exchange free of emotion and a cold business negotiation. If he tries to fight you with a bunch of buddies, do whatever you can to move it in front of a neutral crowd. 9 times out of 10, they won't even show for the fight. When they do, put on a good show. If you make it so troublesome to be a target, no matter how weird you are, they'll leave you alone. You have to make it a bad equation for them to pick on you. They pick on you because something is bad in their lives and they have to pick on somebody and by not fighting back you make it easy for them to use you as the outlet for their problems. Make it not easy, introduce friction into that equation. If you do fight, 9 times out of 10, you'll end up being their friend and most of the time you'll find out that the bullies really have shitty life stories and need a friend. Treat the bully like an angry dog, don't turn your back, don't run. Slow movements. He's not bullying you out of a rational decision, he's doing it out of instinct. He's a dumb and dangerous animal you should treat that way. In my experience one fight is generally enough.

rikthevik 16y ago

God damn, is childhood a tough time. Life seems really easy these days. Grade five felt about 10 years long. Maybe I don't remember how bad it was, but I find myself thinking of the kids who were doing the bullying. The one guy became an alcoholic in High School because his dad needed someone to drink with during the day. School wasn't good, but when I got home I was mostly in the clear. It's hard to imagine how a child who felt constant fear and violence at home could do anything but impose those things on others. I hope that I can instill in my children both the skills to resist bullying for themselves, but also the sense of justice to fight it when it's done to others.

daylast 16y ago

I am in my thirties now and it still utterly astonishes me the degree to which the school administrators, teachers and parents in my high school viewed bullying with blithe ignorance. I was never bullied myself and I was never a bully, but I witnessed atrocities that would land any adult perpetrator behind bars for several years. Sexual assaults of mentally handicapped kids, kids having their heads forced into the water of a dirty toilet, kids shot with pellet guns during class, on-going intimidation, beatings, etc. Amazingly, this is just the stuff that I personally witnessed...I'm sure worse things happened that I never saw. All of this transpired with virtually zero repercussions for the bullies involved. It was truly sad. What is even more sad is that the adults at the school essentially turned a blind eye to this behaviour. I sure hope things have changed since then.

bonsaitree 16y ago

As a fellow bullied child, I can empathize with the treatment, but I could not disagree more with the proposed solutions. You simply can not treat children as adults nor can all family situations be adapted to yield the necessary love & care required to raise a non-bully. Biologically, children also don't have the same ability to morally reason and weigh present actions against future consequences. There's also a good deal of evidence which suggests some personalities and brains have a preternatural inclination towards aggressive actions and violence. Children also learn, nearly from birth, how to please their parents and will often, as the author did, shield their "shame" at being bullied. I was taught by my father, quite simply, to "always stand up for your rights" and that "dignity itself is worth fighting for". As a kid, I never started a fight, but I ALWAYS responded to violence with violence. For many bullies, violence is really is the only social interchange they understand and the attention they receive from the public physical domination of others is their main source of self-esteem. I got into my fair share of physical altercations (which I lost more than I won) and subsequent interactions with school disciplinary actions. Nevertheless, win or lose, I never regretted any fight as they were 100% effective at preventing future bullying. If a bully "gets bullied back", they back down. If a bully "wins a fight", they know you're always ready to throw-down and take the full measure of consequences so they move on to easier "prey". School systems are different, but at least in my case, it always helped out with the school authorities to have the higher GPA and be recognized socially as the "good kid that got in trouble". Finally, one learns at a visceral level, the numerous costs and few benefits of violence. Violence becomes a viable option, internalized very concretely, as the option of absolute last resort.

arohann 16y ago

I went to school in India and while there was some mild bullying now and again it was nowhere near as bad as this. I find it surprising how big a problem it is here in the US especially at the junior and high school level. In India the problem is with hazing (called "ragging") at the college level. Why do teachers stand by and let bullying continue unabated ?

Scared31YearOld 16y ago

Dan's open some seriously deep wounds..... Am a 31 year old and this is a throw away account. I have asked many questions here on HN and some, read correctly, clearly showed my level of self-belief. Since the age of 13 I was bullied, very little physical, mainly regarding my appearence and colour. I am Indian, a little darker than my fellow indian school mates. As I grew up, the the name calling and the playground bullying started. This got worse as I got in to my teens. The same people got the opportunity to bully me for around 12 hours of the day. This serious torment has rendered me to the point of taking the suicide option on a daily basis. You would be correct in assuming "he wrote the last sentence as present and not in the past.". You see, as a fellow HN'er, I can bearly program. I have not been able to concentrate on anything. I scraped through a degree, blagged my way in to jobs. My life has always been about planning, planing the escape from classmates, planing how to get out of school without being noticed, planning how to walk past some classmates on the pavement on the opposite side. This, without realising, has had a dramatic effect on my life. I left my family, I left everyone I knew to "get away". I planned to do this and planned to do that, but nothing materialised because the constant bullying has lead me to be down and depressed every step of the way. Today, I earn over $60K+ working in Telecoms. I am shy, dont have the confidence to approach women and yet, managed to somehow marry a beautiful, kind hearted women but she has never known this about me. I hate myself. I still feel, ugly, fat and black (this is not in the black/white way racial way, but in a dark skinned highly unattactive way)....all those thing I got called years ago still affect me today and I am 31 years old. I am qualifed, experianced and confident in walking in to an interview and getting the job, but my level of confidence ends there. Once in the job, am subdued in to the corner by my own doing, loose all motivation, feel depressed and just want to leave....all that after 2 weeks of starting a new job, yet I love technology, I love neworking, programming and love being a techie! What is wrong with me? How do I 'snap' out of this? Is it even possible? am I depressed??? My doctor came to this conclusion 2 months ago. He died recently so nothing was done about it. I have been involved in some small startup here in the UK. I have buried myself in them and throughly enjoyed it, albeit, with the constant nagging from within of failure, unattractivenessno, no self-love etc etc. None have been successful for their own reasons. I long to do a startup, I long to make a successful product. I dont have any love for designer clothes, fancy cars or big houses. Is simply wish to learn to code and create a much loved and successful product. I long to learn how to program correctly, effiecently but at each step, I fail with lack of concentration (even basic CSS is not happening), pressure from within and just wanting to get away from it all therefore loosing time and forgeting what I learnt. I wish I could go back and stand up to those bullies, I wish I didnt let them get to me, I wish myself to be dead to this day. I have my religious beliefs which stop me from commiting suicide, but god knows I have been close. I am 31, and I still cry myself to sleep for being a failure, all this, without my wife of 10 years, knowing a single thing I've wrote above. Bullies...Please Please Stop It. Any advice would be helpful.

joelhooks 16y ago

One aspect of home educating our four kids is that none of them have ever been bullied.

phpnode 16y ago
Right, but unfortunately bullying is a part of life and learning how to deal with it is an important life skill. How will you teach your children to deal with this kind of aggressive confrontation? School isn't just about academic education, it's about social education, I'm genuinely curious how you can achieve this in a home school setting
- arethuza 16y ago
  Although both my wife and I went to state schools we sent our son to a private school and it is pretty clear to me that the biggest advantage is the social education - which is probably why there is such an emphasis on team sports (particularly rugby). Even though it is a very well run school there is bullying - there is always bullying of some kind in just about every environment (especially workplaces). As far as I am concerned the only way to deal with it is to recognize that the problem is endemic and teach everyone how to deal with it - the approach I told my son was "if anyone bullies you, punch them as hard as you can on the end of their nose - I'll back you up 100% if this causes a problem".
- DifE-Q 16y ago
  I know many home school children, and the common idea that they are not socially educated, or well adjusted, is a myth. Most home schooled children do not sit at home all day - cordoned away from the world. They are usually involved in as much, if not more, activities outside of the home as public schooled children. They have friends in their neighborhoods, and friends they meet in home school groups and their home school activities. As a matter of fact the home schooled children I know are not only generally smarter, and the adults (home schooled) more successful and happier in life, but the kids are far more socially adjusted than the kids that go to public schools. Public schools by in large create social constructs that do not exist in the adult world. The home schooled children can converse and interact in a healthy way with both young and old - instead of their exclusive peer group. I home school my children. Yet we have an active church social life, they take piano, wrestling, archery and numerous other peer group events. Plus, on beautiful fall and spring days - when most public school kids are shut up behind brick walls wasting their time in classes with 30+ children learning all of nothing - my kids are outside riding their bikes, exploring the neighborhood, etc. The other advantage is that if I see other children mistreating my children, or if I see my children mistreating other children (or adults) - I can provide the proper discipline and education in the matter; whereas a teacher wouldn't even think to take the time and deal with the problem. This is not to say I helicopter my children - but I am more aware of issues than a single teacher might that has to keep track of 30 to a 100 or more students at a time and I care more than a teacher would. And thus we come to why we are having this discussion in the first place. The article was written by a guy who had a teacher that was not really connected to him, and his parents were not aware enough of the problem to notice and do anything about it. And the bully's parents the same... What could have happened with this guy? Had something not turned in his life, he, like many others may have committed suicide and our world would be at a loss for whatever service and good he has thus far rendered. I think the question really should be this: How is it possible that public school education can teach PROPER socialization - when the evidence and or track record is that these schools produce anti-social behavior and dysfunctional children at such a high level?

yardie 16y ago

Honestly, I can't imagine what the solution is these days. Fight back? maybe. Maybe not. For my son I can say the most important thing is to assess your enemy effectively. I've lost a few friends through school violence. One was shot in the head at a Christmas party, the other was ambushed, beaten into unconsciousness, and never woke up. When I was a young kid the worse you could expect was to beaten badly, by the time I finished high school clear, PVC backpacks and metal detectors at the entrances were the rule. My high school wasn't in the best neighborhood and my first experience with a gun (9mm) was some kid showing it off and pointing it at random students. The point is just know what's at stake before jumping into MAD mode. You may find out the other guy is really ready to go nuclear. In primary school, bullies are easy to figure out, they are little sociopaths that use violence. By high school their little brains have developed and some may be full on psycho.

ajb 16y ago

In some cultures - especially England - insults are a friendship overture. (Yes, it's stupid, but it's the way things are.) What that means, is that the optimal response is to insult back - laughing. not to ignore it and not to take umbrage. No, I'm not saying that all bullies are 'just trying to make friends'. They're not, some of them are vicious shits. But if you live in such a culture, your kid needs to know about it or he will never make friends (I'm not sure if this applies to girls). It will seem like every other kid is out to get them. Laughingly insulting back says 'I have respect for myself, and I am willing to be friends'. I didn't learn this while I was a kid.