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I debated this with a co-worker the other day. His opinion was that no matter what the reason for firing an employee, the employer can always justify it by citi

I debated this with a co-worker the other day. His opinion was that no matter what the reason for firing an employee, the employer can always justify it by citing performance or budgetary concerns. So the protections would be rendered useless. How's it work in Norway? They usually do a good job of making Americans look silly when we say "that can't work because..."

deleted 8y ago
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duxup 8y ago
Timing with the social outrage would present some difficulties. Also presumably this stuff crosses someone's desk and they email someone else and there starts the paper trail for the worker's lawyers.
mdekkers 8y ago
...citing performance or budgetary concerns... In the UK, where I ran a business and employed people, you need a small mountain of paperwork, collected over a fair period of time, to show that you tried in good faith to remedy the situation with the employee (in case of performance). Budgetary concerns also carry a heavy burden of proof. It really is a difficult and time-consuming path. Most medium and large companies choose to bypass the whole thing and offer a "compromise agreement", essentially "we give you x months pay right now if you sign this agreement where we mutually agree not to sue, or talk bad against eachother, and you GTFO right now". There is a significant risk of something called "constructive dismissal" meaning you made it unreasonably hard for someone to be effective in their workplace, that is decided by an employment tribunal. As an employer, the system is undoubtedly a burden, but as a human, I always found I could live with it. I had one instance where it was open-and-shut grounds for instant dismissal, and I still had to spend 4 months going through the process to ensure I was fully covered and not liable to some tribunal action. That sucked, but in the end there are many large firms that will fuck over employees without a second thought (USA style), and employees need protection from that.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Although employees don't get those protections if they've been working for the company for less than 2 years (unless the firing is discriminatory as defined in the Equality Act), and bringing a case to Employment Tribunal is fantastically expensive and thus not common.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

duxup 8y ago

Timing with the social outrage would present some difficulties. Also presumably this stuff crosses someone's desk and they email someone else and there starts the paper trail for the worker's lawyers.

mdekkers 8y ago

...citing performance or budgetary concerns... In the UK, where I ran a business and employed people, you need a small mountain of paperwork, collected over a fair period of time, to show that you tried in good faith to remedy the situation with the employee (in case of performance). Budgetary concerns also carry a heavy burden of proof. It really is a difficult and time-consuming path. Most medium and large companies choose to bypass the whole thing and offer a "compromise agreement", essentially "we give you x months pay right now if you sign this agreement where we mutually agree not to sue, or talk bad against eachother, and you GTFO right now". There is a significant risk of something called "constructive dismissal" meaning you made it unreasonably hard for someone to be effective in their workplace, that is decided by an employment tribunal. As an employer, the system is undoubtedly a burden, but as a human, I always found I could live with it. I had one instance where it was open-and-shut grounds for instant dismissal, and I still had to spend 4 months going through the process to ensure I was fully covered and not liable to some tribunal action. That sucked, but in the end there are many large firms that will fuck over employees without a second thought (USA style), and employees need protection from that.

DanBC 8y ago
Although employees don't get those protections if they've been working for the company for less than 2 years (unless the firing is discriminatory as defined in the Equality Act), and bringing a case to Employment Tribunal is fantastically expensive and thus not common.