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As someone who has slogged through it for 20 years, I wouldn't say I've earned much other than to realize that its all an even bigger mess than what it used to

As someone who has slogged through it for 20 years, I wouldn't say I've earned much other than to realize that its all an even bigger mess than what it used to be. The solutions people come up with to combat it (frameworks, JSX, CSS-in-JS) only exacerbate the complexity in my opinion. I truly feel like we're headed in the wrong direction when it comes to web development. I haven't figured out what the right direction is yet, short of going back to the drawing board with HTML.

idontpost 8y ago
> I haven't figured out what the right direction is yet, short of going back to the drawing board with HTML. That's almost certainly what's needed. The fundamental structure of the HTML-CSS-JS triad is the problem that all this complexity tries to abstract around. Separation of concerns is only good if you're separating the right concerns. Back when web pages were really PAGES (ie documents), the Content-Styling-Interactivity division made sense. But now that web pages are applications that division makes very little sense. All the different solutions represent different approaches to redefining the separation of concerns, but what they all agree on is that Content-Styling-Interactivity is the wrong separation.
- chubot 8y ago
  There are some sites that are applications, and there are some sites that are documents. I'll go as far as to say that will never change. Applications are only one part of the web; the other parts matter too. I care more about reading documents on the web, and I'm glad it has a nice simple way of presenting them (HTML) and styling them (CSS). CSS works OK as long as you aren't trying to control things pixel-for-pixel, which is not what it's meant for. It obviously could be better, but the problem is not easy by any means.
  - idontpost 8y ago
    >There are some sites that are applications, and there are some sites that are documents. >I'll go as far as to say that will never change. Applications are only one part of the web; the other parts matter too. That's true, but it's also not the problem domain. No one is having trouble creating document websites on the internet. That problem is, more or less, solved to the point that almost anyone with no technical background can do it. Application-type sites are where all the pain points lie.

idontpost 8y ago

> I haven't figured out what the right direction is yet, short of going back to the drawing board with HTML. That's almost certainly what's needed. The fundamental structure of the HTML-CSS-JS triad is the problem that all this complexity tries to abstract around. Separation of concerns is only good if you're separating the right concerns. Back when web pages were really PAGES (ie documents), the Content-Styling-Interactivity division made sense. But now that web pages are applications that division makes very little sense. All the different solutions represent different approaches to redefining the separation of concerns, but what they all agree on is that Content-Styling-Interactivity is the wrong separation.

chubot 8y ago
There are some sites that are applications, and there are some sites that are documents. I'll go as far as to say that will never change. Applications are only one part of the web; the other parts matter too. I care more about reading documents on the web, and I'm glad it has a nice simple way of presenting them (HTML) and styling them (CSS). CSS works OK as long as you aren't trying to control things pixel-for-pixel, which is not what it's meant for. It obviously could be better, but the problem is not easy by any means.
- idontpost 8y ago
  >There are some sites that are applications, and there are some sites that are documents. >I'll go as far as to say that will never change. Applications are only one part of the web; the other parts matter too. That's true, but it's also not the problem domain. No one is having trouble creating document websites on the internet. That problem is, more or less, solved to the point that almost anyone with no technical background can do it. Application-type sites are where all the pain points lie.