4 ms·

Look how difficult it is getting two or more developers to agree on "small" things like code formatting conventions or serialization frameworks. Finding two or

Look how difficult it is getting two or more developers to agree on "small" things like code formatting conventions or serialization frameworks. Finding two or more people in such a position that would knowingly break the law by colluding together in some grande conspiracy with the necessary access and privileges to code/production process is the stuff of movies.

lisper 8y ago
You obviously have not been watching the news lately. If you had tried to sell the actual events of the last two years as a movie script it would be rejected as too outrageous to be believed. I mean, Donald Trump as President? Seriously? I'm pretty sure the Chinese government would be capable of planting two or three sleepers in Apple's software division if they decided to.
- tomnipotent 8y ago
  > I'm pretty sure the Chinese government would be capable of planting two or three sleepers in Apple's software division if they decided to. I'm not interested in conjecture. Like I said, the stuff of movies.
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    Is it? The valley is a pretty incestuous place and people with specific skills are pretty small in number. It doesn’t seem wacky that someone with nation state budget wouldn’t have a network of influence to get someone hired somewhere. People do it for their friends all of the time.
    - jsmthrowaway 8y ago
      That’s like saying “we hired the getaway driver, we can rob the bank now, right?” You’ve identified the first step of the plan. There are about nineteen more, and the theoretical network of conspirators required to accomplish this Oscar-winning screenplay would be quite large, which always spells trouble. To that end, I’m amazed it took that long for the FBI to take down the network in the article. The more people who are read in to criminal activity, the risk exponentially increases, as anybody who has been on either end of investigative leverage can tell you. I’m stunned one person in the early days of this scam, particularly when it started involving colorful people, didn’t flip as a bargaining tool for other things they were into.
      - Spooky23 8y ago
        It’s happened. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jun/29/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring-deep-cover https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jun/29/fbi-breaks-up-...
      - badpun 8y ago
        It's not uncommon to plant your own puppet as a president/prime minister of a country to make that country's policies favourable to you (CIA has done it numberous times). Planting a software developer cannot be harder.
- jsmthrowaway 8y ago
  One of the largest and most secretive companies in the world, the same one obsessed with preventing all leaks from exiting the company, the same one who produces ubiquitous devices with occasional national security implications that interest foreign governments, the same one who deals with serious IP problems in the very example nation you just happened to choose, has no thinking or plans around the well-known threats of industrial espionage or sabotage, is what you’re essentially saying. Consider for a moment whether that could be remotely plausible, and I think you’ll see it isn’t. As tomnipotent said, it’d make a cool movie.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    It's also difficult to believe this same company isn't facing down multiple multi-pronged advanced persistent threats.
  - lisper 8y ago
    I didn't say they have no plans. Obviously they do. But unless you work for Apple, you don't know what they are. Whatever their plans are, there is some number N of employees who could subvert those plans. It is legitimate to wonder how big that number is, and to note that there is no way for anyone outside of Apple to know.
- ataturk 8y ago
  I'm not sure what you're getting at with that statement. Trump did not become President due to some kind of fraud, despite what the media attempts to ram into everyone's heads. He won the election fairly and without fraud, unlike many Democrats who promote non-eligible voters voting, outright voter fraud, and use all manner of on the ground support people to mess with ballots and voting machines in key districts in order to get the outcomes they desire. To say there is no voter fraud is to completely overlook who is committing all the fraud and breaking all the laws in the US and who (the media) is covering for them 100%. It's sad that we Americans can't set aside partisan loyalty for even a single second to look objectively at the overall issue and that every time someone attempts to improve voter security in any meaningful, multi-layered way, there is instantaneous push back and accusations made. Bottom line: Voter ID is not racist. Ensuring the code in electronic voting machines is audited and secure is not ridiculous. Limiting absentee ballots and making the majority of people vote on election day is also not outrageous. It is far too easy to tamper with elections and elections are far too important to allow it to happen. And WHO was doing the tampering needs to be brought out into the open and accepted for what it is. Trump, for better or worse, is the antidote to a lot of problems that have risen over the past 30-40 years and have not been addressed but are going to now be addressed. A lot of oxen will be gored in the process. A lot of people are going to wail and complain all the while the US gets the reform it desperately needs. Seriously, if you can't see how bad the corruption has gotten in DC and who promoted it and why, I feel sorry for you. We never had a two-party system, we just had an old-boy network that got really, really corrupt and was about to attempt more unspeakably depraved acts.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
> Finding two or more people in such a position that would knowingly break the law by colluding together in some grande conspiracy This is true only if we were to ignore the following: organised crime; politicians; all secret services, both domestic and foreign; corporate espionage; opportunity getting the better of people, especially problem gamblers and drug addicts

lisper 8y ago

You obviously have not been watching the news lately. If you had tried to sell the actual events of the last two years as a movie script it would be rejected as too outrageous to be believed. I mean, Donald Trump as President? Seriously? I'm pretty sure the Chinese government would be capable of planting two or three sleepers in Apple's software division if they decided to.

tomnipotent 8y ago
> I'm pretty sure the Chinese government would be capable of planting two or three sleepers in Apple's software division if they decided to. I'm not interested in conjecture. Like I said, the stuff of movies.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  Is it? The valley is a pretty incestuous place and people with specific skills are pretty small in number. It doesn’t seem wacky that someone with nation state budget wouldn’t have a network of influence to get someone hired somewhere. People do it for their friends all of the time.
  - jsmthrowaway 8y ago
    That’s like saying “we hired the getaway driver, we can rob the bank now, right?” You’ve identified the first step of the plan. There are about nineteen more, and the theoretical network of conspirators required to accomplish this Oscar-winning screenplay would be quite large, which always spells trouble. To that end, I’m amazed it took that long for the FBI to take down the network in the article. The more people who are read in to criminal activity, the risk exponentially increases, as anybody who has been on either end of investigative leverage can tell you. I’m stunned one person in the early days of this scam, particularly when it started involving colorful people, didn’t flip as a bargaining tool for other things they were into.
    - Spooky23 8y ago
      It’s happened. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jun/29/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring-deep-cover https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jun/29/fbi-breaks-up-...
    - badpun 8y ago
      It's not uncommon to plant your own puppet as a president/prime minister of a country to make that country's policies favourable to you (CIA has done it numberous times). Planting a software developer cannot be harder.
jsmthrowaway 8y ago
One of the largest and most secretive companies in the world, the same one obsessed with preventing all leaks from exiting the company, the same one who produces ubiquitous devices with occasional national security implications that interest foreign governments, the same one who deals with serious IP problems in the very example nation you just happened to choose, has no thinking or plans around the well-known threats of industrial espionage or sabotage, is what you’re essentially saying. Consider for a moment whether that could be remotely plausible, and I think you’ll see it isn’t. As tomnipotent said, it’d make a cool movie.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  It's also difficult to believe this same company isn't facing down multiple multi-pronged advanced persistent threats.
- lisper 8y ago
  I didn't say they have no plans. Obviously they do. But unless you work for Apple, you don't know what they are. Whatever their plans are, there is some number N of employees who could subvert those plans. It is legitimate to wonder how big that number is, and to note that there is no way for anyone outside of Apple to know.
ataturk 8y ago
I'm not sure what you're getting at with that statement. Trump did not become President due to some kind of fraud, despite what the media attempts to ram into everyone's heads. He won the election fairly and without fraud, unlike many Democrats who promote non-eligible voters voting, outright voter fraud, and use all manner of on the ground support people to mess with ballots and voting machines in key districts in order to get the outcomes they desire. To say there is no voter fraud is to completely overlook who is committing all the fraud and breaking all the laws in the US and who (the media) is covering for them 100%. It's sad that we Americans can't set aside partisan loyalty for even a single second to look objectively at the overall issue and that every time someone attempts to improve voter security in any meaningful, multi-layered way, there is instantaneous push back and accusations made. Bottom line: Voter ID is not racist. Ensuring the code in electronic voting machines is audited and secure is not ridiculous. Limiting absentee ballots and making the majority of people vote on election day is also not outrageous. It is far too easy to tamper with elections and elections are far too important to allow it to happen. And WHO was doing the tampering needs to be brought out into the open and accepted for what it is. Trump, for better or worse, is the antidote to a lot of problems that have risen over the past 30-40 years and have not been addressed but are going to now be addressed. A lot of oxen will be gored in the process. A lot of people are going to wail and complain all the while the US gets the reform it desperately needs. Seriously, if you can't see how bad the corruption has gotten in DC and who promoted it and why, I feel sorry for you. We never had a two-party system, we just had an old-boy network that got really, really corrupt and was about to attempt more unspeakably depraved acts.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

> Finding two or more people in such a position that would knowingly break the law by colluding together in some grande conspiracy This is true only if we were to ignore the following: organised crime; politicians; all secret services, both domestic and foreign; corporate espionage; opportunity getting the better of people, especially problem gamblers and drug addicts