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Can I ask a question I've always wondered about? What's wrong with having two different physical devices, one that helps you accomplish stuff and one that ente

Can I ask a question I've always wondered about? What's wrong with having two different physical devices, one that helps you accomplish stuff and one that entertains you? Seems like by splitting it up physically like this you'd be able to keep the two separate. If nothing else, it'd be unambiguous to all involved what your personal goals were.

GW150914 8y ago
I do this, but it’s at the cost of portability and double the money. Presumably between those two factors you lose quite a few people who would otherwise consider this.
convolvatron 8y ago
that seems excessive. any failure of your behavior to meet your self-generated long terms goals is really up to you to enforce. if we just cant stop ourselves from gorging on social media candy and click bait, that underlies a pretty serious question about free will. since for the moment the internet approximates its initial goal of underlying ubiquitous connectivity, and the costs of running services is vanishingly small, doesn't it seem like well intentioned people with broader goals could create alternate content? (i.e. wikipedia, HN, LtU)
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > if we just cant stop ourselves from gorging on social media candy and click bait, that underlies a pretty serious question about free will. Existence and success of marketing and modern advertising is a stronger blow to the concept of free will. It turns out that people are very susceptible to manipulation, and in fact are being manipulated at scale. (Also, even if humans had perfect free will, it wouldn't change much. If you see free will as a procedure taking in perceived world state, and putting out some decisions somewhat correlated with the input, you could still break it by poisoning the input. Which is precisely what most sales, marketing and advertising efforts are about.)
fghtr 8y ago
Two physically separate devices? I think one can just use Qubes OS instead.
- majewsky 8y ago
  I think what Daniel means is not about separation of data domains, it's about separation of mental domains. So the distinction between two separate devices would serve as a mental aid to separate concerns. In the same way that I like to work in the office rather than from home: It helps me to focus on one thing at a time (either work matters or personal matters).
  - DanielBMarkham 8y ago
    Exactly. I know several startup founders who ended up managing their time better by having only one machine for work and one for play -- and the machine for play they kept in a separate room. It wasn't a capabilities question, it was a mental discipline question. When they went into the other room they mentally switched gears to have some fun and recreation. Over time the physical separation allowed them to separate the goals in their minds as well. The machine or tech had nothing to do with it. Likewise I've been fortunate to work with some higher-level folks in traditional work in the 90s and 00s. They had their emails printed and read to them. It wasn't because they lacked computer skill. The physical act of requiring that the emails be printed and read to them limited the flow and increased the time they spent considering each reply. By limiting the time they spent on correspondence, it then created a small amount of extremely high-value correspondence where otherwise they could have easily spent all day slacking or whatnot. (I have no idea if that strategy works or not, I was simply fascinated that what originally looked like some kind of weird, old-fashioned luddite philosophy was actually based on increasing quality.) The physicality of how we accomplish various tasks can have a great amount of impact on how well we do them.

GW150914 8y ago

I do this, but it’s at the cost of portability and double the money. Presumably between those two factors you lose quite a few people who would otherwise consider this.

convolvatron 8y ago

that seems excessive. any failure of your behavior to meet your self-generated long terms goals is really up to you to enforce. if we just cant stop ourselves from gorging on social media candy and click bait, that underlies a pretty serious question about free will. since for the moment the internet approximates its initial goal of underlying ubiquitous connectivity, and the costs of running services is vanishingly small, doesn't it seem like well intentioned people with broader goals could create alternate content? (i.e. wikipedia, HN, LtU)

TeMPOraL 8y ago
> if we just cant stop ourselves from gorging on social media candy and click bait, that underlies a pretty serious question about free will. Existence and success of marketing and modern advertising is a stronger blow to the concept of free will. It turns out that people are very susceptible to manipulation, and in fact are being manipulated at scale. (Also, even if humans had perfect free will, it wouldn't change much. If you see free will as a procedure taking in perceived world state, and putting out some decisions somewhat correlated with the input, you could still break it by poisoning the input. Which is precisely what most sales, marketing and advertising efforts are about.)

fghtr 8y ago

Two physically separate devices? I think one can just use Qubes OS instead.

majewsky 8y ago
I think what Daniel means is not about separation of data domains, it's about separation of mental domains. So the distinction between two separate devices would serve as a mental aid to separate concerns. In the same way that I like to work in the office rather than from home: It helps me to focus on one thing at a time (either work matters or personal matters).
- DanielBMarkham 8y ago
  Exactly. I know several startup founders who ended up managing their time better by having only one machine for work and one for play -- and the machine for play they kept in a separate room. It wasn't a capabilities question, it was a mental discipline question. When they went into the other room they mentally switched gears to have some fun and recreation. Over time the physical separation allowed them to separate the goals in their minds as well. The machine or tech had nothing to do with it. Likewise I've been fortunate to work with some higher-level folks in traditional work in the 90s and 00s. They had their emails printed and read to them. It wasn't because they lacked computer skill. The physical act of requiring that the emails be printed and read to them limited the flow and increased the time they spent considering each reply. By limiting the time they spent on correspondence, it then created a small amount of extremely high-value correspondence where otherwise they could have easily spent all day slacking or whatnot. (I have no idea if that strategy works or not, I was simply fascinated that what originally looked like some kind of weird, old-fashioned luddite philosophy was actually based on increasing quality.) The physicality of how we accomplish various tasks can have a great amount of impact on how well we do them.