7 ms·

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble s

by anonu 8y ago

Couple anecdotal points: - Used to have to sleep problems - mainly just my mind racing with all the (stress of) things I had to do. The symptoms were trouble sleeping and/or waking in the middle of the night with instant thoughts of projects, task lists. - Melatonin didn't help me much. Maybe their effect was too subtle on me - maybe I was using the wrong dose as mentioned in the post. - Magnesium Glycinate pills before sleep were a massive help in falling asleep and staying asleep. The only way I can describe its effects is helping me "control my brain waves". Sounds a bit non-technical but the effect is quite subtle . The idea to take these supplements were from previous discussions on HN. - Recently got a newborn baby - first child. These things will do more to knock you sleep cycle out whack than anything else I've experienced. Coincidentally, falling asleep and staying asleep is easier than ever. You just end up getting woken up by a tiny crying human at seemingly random times.

Sharlin 8y ago
There's really no great solution to stress-induced sleep problems except to reduce stress.
clumsysmurf 8y ago
I use Mg Citrate, because it seems pretty bio-available and easy to find. Does the form matter? Maybe I should switch to Glycinate.
- clumsysmurf 8y ago
  Gah, the Mg Citrate I used from Solgar seems to be contaminated with Arsenic according to labdoor. https://labdoor.com/rankings/magnesium https://labdoor.com/rankings/magnesium
Mouse47 8y ago
Quick note for anyone reading this about magnesium glycinate: this form of magnesium contains an amino acid called glycine, and we have evidence that glycine can improve sleep quality. According to examine.com, the evidence is "very high" that: >In persons undergoing mild sleep deprivation, 3g of glycine an hour prior to sleep is able to increase sleep quality and improve self-reports of fatigue and well being the next day due to better sleep. I take approx. 10g of gelatin a day which also contains glycine, and I also notice improvements in my sleep.
- martincmartin 8y ago
  According to consumerlab.com, there have only been a few, small studies, all supported by or involving employees of Ajinomoto, which sells glycine. So it seems wrong to call the evidence "very high".
dogcow 8y ago
I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started. Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual tablet (1-3 mg), makes me feel a bit sleepier, but doesn't often keep me asleep through the night. When swallowed via a capsule, it makes me feel like I've been hit by a bus for the entirety of the next day, even if I slept the night before. My own research led me to magnesium glycinate, which helped to some degree (maybe I wasn't taking enough?), but didn't solve the problem. My biggest trouble is falling asleep - I can be dead tired, but as soon as I'm in bed, my mind goes nuts, and I lie awake for hours. Then, by the time my body is in nice deep sleep, it's time to get up, and the deep sleep is disrupted. I recently had an appointment with my physician (who practices integrative medicine and is not your typical MD), and he told me to try a relatively new formulation of magnesium called Magnesium L-Threonate, commercially known as Magtein. It is apparently the best type of magnesium for crossing the blood-brain barrier, and thus, likely the best at addressing sleep issues. I've been on it for about a week now (taking 1000mg 2 hours before bed and 1000mg upon waking in the morning), and have slept better in the last two nights than I have for a long time. Here's to hoping it keeps working! I also use a couple other hacks to help me sleep - at night, about an hour after the sun sets, I wear "blue blocking" glasses (the UVEX S0360X fit nicely over my prescription glasses). Sounds (and looks) goofy, but for me it creates a noticeably stronger "sleep pressure" than I'd experience without them. I also wear a mask over my eyes when sleeping, to block out any ambient light, and I just started making an effort to listen to music while waiting to fall asleep. I think all of these things help to some degree. Also, check out the book "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker.
- didgeoridoo 8y ago
  It’s recommended in Walker’s book so you probably already know about it, but CBTI (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia) might be a useful intervention for you based on the difficulties you’ve described.
- victor106 8y ago
srean 8y ago
My experience with Melatonin is similar to yours. I tried the 2.5 mg and the 5mg dosages. If anything they made my sleep even shallower in the sense, yeah I have my eyes closed but am fully aware of my thoughts and surroundings but am too lazy/tired to be physically active. It also gave me weird dreams (not that I mind). waking up was tiring because all night my mind was awake. I think its good for REM sleep but what I desired more was the deeper sleep cycles that make me feel rested.
- gniv 8y ago
  Note that the article suggests the ideal dosage is 0.3 mg, and larger dosage might not have the desired effect.
  - srean 8y ago
    That's exactly right as the body uses melatonin spike as a wake up signal as well. I think it was .25 and .5 mg I tried -- half of the minimum dose that was available over the counter at that time. It was about 5 years ago, so don't remember too well.
hiram112 8y ago
Where did you get the idea for Magnesium Glycinate? Never heard of it. My sleep cycle has been out of whack since 17 years old. I've learned the hard way - no school jobs, relationships, etc. that require early mornings. I have been able to improve things with a half of dose of Ambien 2-3x a week. I've heard good reports from some of the newer patented drugs (Lunesta, I think) but they're still quite expensive.
- rabidhamster 8y ago
  Lunesta is available cheaply as a generic under the name eszopiclone.
- dalore 8y ago
  You don't want to take a sleeping pill everynight. That's pretty bad. I would suggest meditation.
  - collyw 8y ago
    I have tried tons of stuff for sleeping. Meditation helps, but to be honest Magnesium Bisglycinate has had far better effect. Plus meditation takes a fair bit of practice and is unlikely to help in help immediately because of that.
ozmbie 8y ago
Have you tried meditation? Nothing fancy, just taking 15 minutes to focus on breathing exercises. Whenever I find my mind racing at night, it's because I haven't taken any "down time" during the day. Laying in bed at night is often the first moment of my entire day (other than taking a shower) where I have no external stimulation of work or entertainment. Best of luck with everything though!
Raphmedia 8y ago
Used to have really bad eye tics, along with difficulty falling asleep and leg cramps. For the longest time I thought it was Tourette or some other neurological issue. Turn out I was deficient in magnesium for all my early adulthood (coffee and alcohol depletes it quickly). Minerals are underrated.
tylerjwilk00 8y ago
Let's keep the magnesium training rolling. NOW ZMA [1] has been my life saver for years. It never fails to make me enter "sleep mode". The same dose works now as has always worked. Do not take calcium supplements at the same time as ZMA. [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OZGQ0/r https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OZGQ0/r
nwah1 8y ago
If you read the article, you'll note that the dosage and quality of the melatonin matters greatly, and simply saying that it didn't work isn't that meaningful if you don't explain at least what the dosage was. Very low dosages seem to work best, according to the article... dosages lower than what is commonly sold. My anecdotal experience matches this recommendation.

by anonu 8y ago

Sharlin 8y ago

There's really no great solution to stress-induced sleep problems except to reduce stress.

clumsysmurf 8y ago

I use Mg Citrate, because it seems pretty bio-available and easy to find. Does the form matter? Maybe I should switch to Glycinate.

clumsysmurf 8y ago
Gah, the Mg Citrate I used from Solgar seems to be contaminated with Arsenic according to labdoor. https://labdoor.com/rankings/magnesium https://labdoor.com/rankings/magnesium

Mouse47 8y ago

Quick note for anyone reading this about magnesium glycinate: this form of magnesium contains an amino acid called glycine, and we have evidence that glycine can improve sleep quality. According to examine.com, the evidence is "very high" that: >In persons undergoing mild sleep deprivation, 3g of glycine an hour prior to sleep is able to increase sleep quality and improve self-reports of fatigue and well being the next day due to better sleep. I take approx. 10g of gelatin a day which also contains glycine, and I also notice improvements in my sleep.

martincmartin 8y ago
According to consumerlab.com, there have only been a few, small studies, all supported by or involving employees of Ajinomoto, which sells glycine. So it seems wrong to call the evidence "very high".

dogcow 8y ago

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started. Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual tablet (1-3 mg), makes me feel a bit sleepier, but doesn't often keep me asleep through the night. When swallowed via a capsule, it makes me feel like I've been hit by a bus for the entirety of the next day, even if I slept the night before. My own research led me to magnesium glycinate, which helped to some degree (maybe I wasn't taking enough?), but didn't solve the problem. My biggest trouble is falling asleep - I can be dead tired, but as soon as I'm in bed, my mind goes nuts, and I lie awake for hours. Then, by the time my body is in nice deep sleep, it's time to get up, and the deep sleep is disrupted. I recently had an appointment with my physician (who practices integrative medicine and is not your typical MD), and he told me to try a relatively new formulation of magnesium called Magnesium L-Threonate, commercially known as Magtein. It is apparently the best type of magnesium for crossing the blood-brain barrier, and thus, likely the best at addressing sleep issues. I've been on it for about a week now (taking 1000mg 2 hours before bed and 1000mg upon waking in the morning), and have slept better in the last two nights than I have for a long time. Here's to hoping it keeps working! I also use a couple other hacks to help me sleep - at night, about an hour after the sun sets, I wear "blue blocking" glasses (the UVEX S0360X fit nicely over my prescription glasses). Sounds (and looks) goofy, but for me it creates a noticeably stronger "sleep pressure" than I'd experience without them. I also wear a mask over my eyes when sleeping, to block out any ambient light, and I just started making an effort to listen to music while waiting to fall asleep. I think all of these things help to some degree. Also, check out the book "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker.

didgeoridoo 8y ago
It’s recommended in Walker’s book so you probably already know about it, but CBTI (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia) might be a useful intervention for you based on the difficulties you’ve described.
victor106 8y ago

srean 8y ago

My experience with Melatonin is similar to yours. I tried the 2.5 mg and the 5mg dosages. If anything they made my sleep even shallower in the sense, yeah I have my eyes closed but am fully aware of my thoughts and surroundings but am too lazy/tired to be physically active. It also gave me weird dreams (not that I mind). waking up was tiring because all night my mind was awake. I think its good for REM sleep but what I desired more was the deeper sleep cycles that make me feel rested.

gniv 8y ago
Note that the article suggests the ideal dosage is 0.3 mg, and larger dosage might not have the desired effect.
- srean 8y ago
  That's exactly right as the body uses melatonin spike as a wake up signal as well. I think it was .25 and .5 mg I tried -- half of the minimum dose that was available over the counter at that time. It was about 5 years ago, so don't remember too well.

hiram112 8y ago

Where did you get the idea for Magnesium Glycinate? Never heard of it. My sleep cycle has been out of whack since 17 years old. I've learned the hard way - no school jobs, relationships, etc. that require early mornings. I have been able to improve things with a half of dose of Ambien 2-3x a week. I've heard good reports from some of the newer patented drugs (Lunesta, I think) but they're still quite expensive.

rabidhamster 8y ago
Lunesta is available cheaply as a generic under the name eszopiclone.
dalore 8y ago
You don't want to take a sleeping pill everynight. That's pretty bad. I would suggest meditation.
- collyw 8y ago
  I have tried tons of stuff for sleeping. Meditation helps, but to be honest Magnesium Bisglycinate has had far better effect. Plus meditation takes a fair bit of practice and is unlikely to help in help immediately because of that.

ozmbie 8y ago

Have you tried meditation? Nothing fancy, just taking 15 minutes to focus on breathing exercises. Whenever I find my mind racing at night, it's because I haven't taken any "down time" during the day. Laying in bed at night is often the first moment of my entire day (other than taking a shower) where I have no external stimulation of work or entertainment. Best of luck with everything though!

Raphmedia 8y ago

Used to have really bad eye tics, along with difficulty falling asleep and leg cramps. For the longest time I thought it was Tourette or some other neurological issue. Turn out I was deficient in magnesium for all my early adulthood (coffee and alcohol depletes it quickly). Minerals are underrated.

tylerjwilk00 8y ago

Let's keep the magnesium training rolling. NOW ZMA [1] has been my life saver for years. It never fails to make me enter "sleep mode". The same dose works now as has always worked. Do not take calcium supplements at the same time as ZMA. [1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OZGQ0/r https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OZGQ0/r

nwah1 8y ago

If you read the article, you'll note that the dosage and quality of the melatonin matters greatly, and simply saying that it didn't work isn't that meaningful if you don't explain at least what the dosage was. Very low dosages seem to work best, according to the article... dosages lower than what is commonly sold. My anecdotal experience matches this recommendation.