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Cost? The setup you described would be really expensive and cumbersome compared to people submitting their own photos, assuming of course you can apply for a p

Cost? The setup you described would be really expensive and cumbersome compared to people submitting their own photos, assuming of course you can apply for a passport by post or online and don't have to go to an office with an appointment anyway, in which case it may make some sense even if it only increases the quality of photos by a few percent -- to be honest I'd be skeptical that the improvement would be more than this, the parameters for self taken photos are rather strict after all, such that it's quite hard to take photo that 'doesn't look like you' because of light, hair, makeup etc and have it be accepted.

azernik 8y ago
Mostly agreed. However, your last bit misses the point: > the parameters for self taken photos are rather strict after all, such that it's quite hard to take photo that 'doesn't look like you' because of light, hair, makeup etc and have it be accepted. The point there isn't to control for lighting conditions, but to make it physically impossible for the photo in the passport to be of someone who didn't bring the application in.
- lapinot 8y ago
  This is only partially true: because you cannot wear your glasses and you may need to put your hair in a specific way to clear your face, you definitely can obtain a picture that doesn't look like your casual look (even if the natural facial features are matching).
improbable22 8y ago
Lots of places do exactly this. In fact the last time I applied for a passport, it was completely paperless, no paper forms to enter, no stapled-on photos to scan. It's hard to believe this would not be cheaper, in 2018. Visa applications too -- sometimes there's one kiosk-like machine which wants your fingerprints as well.
guy98238710 8y ago
Biometric-compatible photos must be done at the site of issuance, because people just cannot stop smiling and doing other nonsense when taking photographs themselves. A photo booth at the site of issuance is very cheap compared to salaries of employees who work there. And it lowers total cost of issuance when you consider costs on the side of the citizen.
- bodas 8y ago
  Not true in the UK, most people apply for their biometric passport online (or by post, which costs more). Adults applying for their first passport may be asked to attend an interview.
  - gsnedders 8y ago
    > Adults applying for their first passport may be asked to attend an interview. And that itself is a relatively new change, and there are still only a few offices around the country.
davchana 8y ago
Just last week I applied Indian Passport because of some changes in my address & othet particulars, the process was to fill an online form, pay fees online, book appointment online, show up with a confirmation SMS & old Original Passport alongwith one more ID Original. So basically no photocopies, no paper. Went in at pre-opted time, entered a number from my SMS in a kiosk machine, confirmed all particulars filled in online as correct, stood for photo, put fingers on scanner when asked, got another token number, where when called, a single person asked me to show him my original existing passport & second ID, all ok, received a SMS & Email with all the details, & a case number to follow the progress. All paperless & interacted with only one human. All this was managed by Tata Technology & Indian Government. Fun Fact, Machine didn't show me my photo till the very last step, & I thought of changing & having one more try to pose with looking bit good, got an error that Photo will he taken only once, & only them can initiate the re-click of photo, not me.
- ttsda 8y ago
  We also have similar machines in Portugal for ID card and passport issuance, but luckily they will ask if you like the picture or if you want another taken...
- ryanlol 8y ago
  Do you think that they process your data in a secure manner?
  - davchana 8y ago
    I think yes, as Tata is a reputed brand & group of companies (auto, tech, steel, infra & many) & also because whole passport office & operation is always supervised by government officials. Before this, it was always a big bundle of original & photocopied documents & forms.
    - ryanlol 8y ago
      Indian bigcos tend to have this odd habit of putting all their internal stuff publicly on github, I’ve never really figured out why. Searching something like “tcs.com password” or “proxy.tcs.com” finds vast amounts of internal tata stuff like this https://github.com/nabind/prism_test/blob/9b42b56cd3c108e8d4664aad4b96ed2c7d0f8e97/INORS/PrismPdfUtility/aws.properties https://github.com/nabind/prism_test/blob/9b42b56cd3c108e8d4... or this https://github.com/manojkarthick/Real-Time-Twitter-Analysis/blob/377d908c4e65f89e7bad11627b131948e3063600/conf/twitter4j.properties https://github.com/manojkarthick/Real-Time-Twitter-Analysis/... With a quick look there seem to be 100+ unique TCS domain logins on github. I’m sure there are some smart people there, but this seems like a seriously troubled organization.

azernik 8y ago

Mostly agreed. However, your last bit misses the point: > the parameters for self taken photos are rather strict after all, such that it's quite hard to take photo that 'doesn't look like you' because of light, hair, makeup etc and have it be accepted. The point there isn't to control for lighting conditions, but to make it physically impossible for the photo in the passport to be of someone who didn't bring the application in.

lapinot 8y ago
This is only partially true: because you cannot wear your glasses and you may need to put your hair in a specific way to clear your face, you definitely can obtain a picture that doesn't look like your casual look (even if the natural facial features are matching).

improbable22 8y ago

Lots of places do exactly this. In fact the last time I applied for a passport, it was completely paperless, no paper forms to enter, no stapled-on photos to scan. It's hard to believe this would not be cheaper, in 2018. Visa applications too -- sometimes there's one kiosk-like machine which wants your fingerprints as well.

guy98238710 8y ago

Biometric-compatible photos must be done at the site of issuance, because people just cannot stop smiling and doing other nonsense when taking photographs themselves. A photo booth at the site of issuance is very cheap compared to salaries of employees who work there. And it lowers total cost of issuance when you consider costs on the side of the citizen.

bodas 8y ago
Not true in the UK, most people apply for their biometric passport online (or by post, which costs more). Adults applying for their first passport may be asked to attend an interview.
- gsnedders 8y ago
  > Adults applying for their first passport may be asked to attend an interview. And that itself is a relatively new change, and there are still only a few offices around the country.

davchana 8y ago

Just last week I applied Indian Passport because of some changes in my address & othet particulars, the process was to fill an online form, pay fees online, book appointment online, show up with a confirmation SMS & old Original Passport alongwith one more ID Original. So basically no photocopies, no paper. Went in at pre-opted time, entered a number from my SMS in a kiosk machine, confirmed all particulars filled in online as correct, stood for photo, put fingers on scanner when asked, got another token number, where when called, a single person asked me to show him my original existing passport & second ID, all ok, received a SMS & Email with all the details, & a case number to follow the progress. All paperless & interacted with only one human. All this was managed by Tata Technology & Indian Government. Fun Fact, Machine didn't show me my photo till the very last step, & I thought of changing & having one more try to pose with looking bit good, got an error that Photo will he taken only once, & only them can initiate the re-click of photo, not me.

ttsda 8y ago
We also have similar machines in Portugal for ID card and passport issuance, but luckily they will ask if you like the picture or if you want another taken...
ryanlol 8y ago
Do you think that they process your data in a secure manner?
- davchana 8y ago
  I think yes, as Tata is a reputed brand & group of companies (auto, tech, steel, infra & many) & also because whole passport office & operation is always supervised by government officials. Before this, it was always a big bundle of original & photocopied documents & forms.
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    Indian bigcos tend to have this odd habit of putting all their internal stuff publicly on github, I’ve never really figured out why. Searching something like “tcs.com password” or “proxy.tcs.com” finds vast amounts of internal tata stuff like this https://github.com/nabind/prism_test/blob/9b42b56cd3c108e8d4664aad4b96ed2c7d0f8e97/INORS/PrismPdfUtility/aws.properties https://github.com/nabind/prism_test/blob/9b42b56cd3c108e8d4... or this https://github.com/manojkarthick/Real-Time-Twitter-Analysis/blob/377d908c4e65f89e7bad11627b131948e3063600/conf/twitter4j.properties https://github.com/manojkarthick/Real-Time-Twitter-Analysis/... With a quick look there seem to be 100+ unique TCS domain logins on github. I’m sure there are some smart people there, but this seems like a seriously troubled organization.