5 ms·

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already b

by rofo1 8y ago

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.g. one thinks there are night owls , one thinks it's a myth; one thinks we need 7 hours of sleep, one thinks that less than 8+ hours of sleep is devastating). But in general, the message is the same - sleep well, try to fit into your circadian rhythm because all organs have internal clocks and being in rhythm benefits them all; some of them are interconnected, some are dependent on SCN, etc In particular, the clinical trials with TRE (Time-Restricted eating, as in putting all calories in 8-12 hour intervals daily) seem amazing. Not a single side-effect, and all health markers seem to be improving under it. One important study on mice concluded that mice that ate their high-fat, high-sugar food in 8 hour intervals (lets say, 8AM -> 4PM) compared to the control group of regular mice that had high-fat, high-sugar food all the time, ate more or less the same amount of calories daily, but the TRE-group had no increase of blood sugar or body fat. Seems too good to be true, but apparently the study has been replicated..

tigershark 8y ago
I don’t really think it works in the same way for humans. I have been doing it for decades and I can assure you that my body fat increases if I overeat.
- rofo1 8y ago
  Have you been doing TRE in 8 hour intervals? There was a study on this as well, and it turns out a lot of people simply think they are doing TRE, but once they start writing down exactly what they eat and exactly when, turns out it's far away from TRE. I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories, but I keep an open mind for now until someone can refute it. The blood sugar thing makes sense to me with what I know about melatonin suppressing the insulin - that's a fact. But the rest of the conclusion.. who knows.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories Counting just the calories ignores second order effect, and diet is all about second order effects. If one could absolutely stick to counting the calories and eating the specified amount, of course one would lose weight. But e.g. a diet of only having 1500 calories of broccoli for 1 year, and one would be ill from lack of tons of nutrients and vitamins (and they'd have stopped much earlier anyway). E.g. if one eats certain kinds of foods, your appetite increases and it's more likely to overeat. Not giving one's self some foods they like, also makes it easier and more tempting to break a diet. And lots of other factors (exercise, hydration, nutrition, and so on) unrelated with counting calories, that still affect what we eat and how we process it.
    - barrkel 8y ago
      One / your / it / we: make up your mind on pronoun and stick with it!
      - coldtea 8y ago
        Maybe focus on the content? Any disparity is just on this single sentence: "your appetite increases" (as opposed to "their" or "one's"). "Their" as used across the comment is not meant as the plural possessive. It's instead used as a gender-neutral pronoun (a common use) to avoid repeating "one's" or using "his/hers". It, in "your appetite increases and it's more likely to overeat" etc., refers to the situation/possibility (as in "If they sky's cloudy it's more likely to rain"). It is normal to use different pronouns to refer to different entities. Finally, the "we" at the end is perfectly fitting. It's a generalization, beyond what each individual does.
        barrkel 8y ago
        It was really distracting to read. The mix - and there was a they in there too - broke focus. Sorry.
        8y ago
- victor106 8y ago
  End of the day you still have to burn more calories than you take in and also eat less carbs and sugars. I think once you do that any benefits are marginal(based on my personal experience)
clumsysmurf 8y ago
I think I'm a night Owl with DSPS. For the past few weeks I have been trying to shift my schedule to wake at 4:30AM, go running, eat within 6 hours (Time Restricted Eating), and repeat - but my body is rejecting this like an allergy - I just feel awful. I felt best running in the evening a little before sunset, getting back and eating within 6 hours, and going to bed around 2-3AM. I had to change my schedule because we have bad Ozone problems in Phoenix AZ, so O3 around sunset was terribad — not worth running (if it was for health, anyhow). Which book do you recommend? I feel like I'm fighting my body; since I began "waking" at 4AM (I think I'm already kinda awake) I can't sleep for more than 1-2 hours and get tired around 2PM. If I fall asleep at 2PM then I REALLY sleep, for many hours, and wake around 8PM. Its a total mess. I'm doing everything I know how: be in the sun early, melatonin, activity early, calories early, TRE, avoid blue light before bed, but my body still seems to reject the early bird protocol.
- rofo1 8y ago
  I recommend you to read "Why We Sleep", however try not to be discouraged when you think about your sleeping pattern and what the science says it damages, and how it is devastating, detrimental to your health and so on. It can be overwhelming a little. If I had to choose one, this is the book I'd recommend. I've only got my experience with sleep deprivation and the methods I use to fix it. I had severe sleep deprivation and now I sleep 8 hours on average, with quality sleep. I am a very light sleeper, on top of having problems falling asleep. This is what I did: 1) limiting the noise - I installed new windows and added new door that leads to my bedroom; I have a fan that I put next to me, put it on the highest speed and it absorbs any noise left. You can achieve this with a "white noise app", too. 2) completely dark room - I cover the windows outside, and then inside too (just in case any light escapes). 3) I fit my meals within 8 or 9 window as a part of TRE (Time-Restricted Eating) - my first meal is around 9AM. It does not have to be perfectly accurate (8:45, 9:15 acceptable) 4) strength training every day (assuming you are cardiovascularly fit); I do sprints as well (twice a week or so) 5) zero alcohol - it is one of the strongest REM suppressors 6) zero caffeine - very important. The average half-life of caffeine is 6 hours. That means that after 6 hours, you still have 50% caffeine in your body. 7) write down the following, and try to look at them from time to time: when you eat, what you eat, calories/macros breakdown, when you go to bed, when you fall asleep (approximately), when you wake-up, and a summary of the previous afternoon and night time - what you think is the reason for the sleep (or lack of) on the day of 8) try to fit in with your circadian rhythm. On average: we are at our peak 10AM-3PM - try to fit strenuous activities in this period (including heavy strength training - since I am a remote developer, I can do this). 9) I walk around 8-10 km every day, part of it in the morning, part of it around 20:00 10) try to limit blue light at night - some ideas: dim lights, orange/red glasses filter, orange/red light bulbs. ----- These were the major things that I did, and some combination of them seem to work. I don't know which ones precisely. Some things that didn't work for me: 1) some natural remedies like valerian tea, etc. - it made me worse, actually. 2) meditation - just doesn't work (for me). A lot of people swear by it.. 3) nothing of this sort: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/fall-asleep-fast/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/fall-asleep-fast/ Try to learn something from what you eat - but be brutally honest with yourself and write down everything that contains calories that you eat. I noticed that I sleep worse on the day I eat more sugars (and I hardly eat sugar at all!). Hope this helps someone.. I know how hard it is without sleep.
thesumofall 8y ago
Does anyone have links to solid studies that provide some better answers if there is a significant share of people who can live on little sleep? As they tell you that you won’t recognize yourself if you’ve slept enough, I don’t quite trust my instincts
nabla9 8y ago
Mice have very fast metabolism. Converting mouse models to humans requires adjustment. There is some evidence that for humans eating all calories within 4 hour window might have similar effects.

by rofo1 8y ago

tigershark 8y ago

I don’t really think it works in the same way for humans. I have been doing it for decades and I can assure you that my body fat increases if I overeat.

rofo1 8y ago
Have you been doing TRE in 8 hour intervals? There was a study on this as well, and it turns out a lot of people simply think they are doing TRE, but once they start writing down exactly what they eat and exactly when, turns out it's far away from TRE. I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories, but I keep an open mind for now until someone can refute it. The blood sugar thing makes sense to me with what I know about melatonin suppressing the insulin - that's a fact. But the rest of the conclusion.. who knows.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories Counting just the calories ignores second order effect, and diet is all about second order effects. If one could absolutely stick to counting the calories and eating the specified amount, of course one would lose weight. But e.g. a diet of only having 1500 calories of broccoli for 1 year, and one would be ill from lack of tons of nutrients and vitamins (and they'd have stopped much earlier anyway). E.g. if one eats certain kinds of foods, your appetite increases and it's more likely to overeat. Not giving one's self some foods they like, also makes it easier and more tempting to break a diet. And lots of other factors (exercise, hydration, nutrition, and so on) unrelated with counting calories, that still affect what we eat and how we process it.
  - barrkel 8y ago
    One / your / it / we: make up your mind on pronoun and stick with it!
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Maybe focus on the content? Any disparity is just on this single sentence: "your appetite increases" (as opposed to "their" or "one's"). "Their" as used across the comment is not meant as the plural possessive. It's instead used as a gender-neutral pronoun (a common use) to avoid repeating "one's" or using "his/hers". It, in "your appetite increases and it's more likely to overeat" etc., refers to the situation/possibility (as in "If they sky's cloudy it's more likely to rain"). It is normal to use different pronouns to refer to different entities. Finally, the "we" at the end is perfectly fitting. It's a generalization, beyond what each individual does.
      - barrkel 8y ago
        It was really distracting to read. The mix - and there was a they in there too - broke focus. Sorry.
        8y ago
victor106 8y ago
End of the day you still have to burn more calories than you take in and also eat less carbs and sugars. I think once you do that any benefits are marginal(based on my personal experience)

clumsysmurf 8y ago

I think I'm a night Owl with DSPS. For the past few weeks I have been trying to shift my schedule to wake at 4:30AM, go running, eat within 6 hours (Time Restricted Eating), and repeat - but my body is rejecting this like an allergy - I just feel awful. I felt best running in the evening a little before sunset, getting back and eating within 6 hours, and going to bed around 2-3AM. I had to change my schedule because we have bad Ozone problems in Phoenix AZ, so O3 around sunset was terribad — not worth running (if it was for health, anyhow). Which book do you recommend? I feel like I'm fighting my body; since I began "waking" at 4AM (I think I'm already kinda awake) I can't sleep for more than 1-2 hours and get tired around 2PM. If I fall asleep at 2PM then I REALLY sleep, for many hours, and wake around 8PM. Its a total mess. I'm doing everything I know how: be in the sun early, melatonin, activity early, calories early, TRE, avoid blue light before bed, but my body still seems to reject the early bird protocol.

rofo1 8y ago
I recommend you to read "Why We Sleep", however try not to be discouraged when you think about your sleeping pattern and what the science says it damages, and how it is devastating, detrimental to your health and so on. It can be overwhelming a little. If I had to choose one, this is the book I'd recommend. I've only got my experience with sleep deprivation and the methods I use to fix it. I had severe sleep deprivation and now I sleep 8 hours on average, with quality sleep. I am a very light sleeper, on top of having problems falling asleep. This is what I did: 1) limiting the noise - I installed new windows and added new door that leads to my bedroom; I have a fan that I put next to me, put it on the highest speed and it absorbs any noise left. You can achieve this with a "white noise app", too. 2) completely dark room - I cover the windows outside, and then inside too (just in case any light escapes). 3) I fit my meals within 8 or 9 window as a part of TRE (Time-Restricted Eating) - my first meal is around 9AM. It does not have to be perfectly accurate (8:45, 9:15 acceptable) 4) strength training every day (assuming you are cardiovascularly fit); I do sprints as well (twice a week or so) 5) zero alcohol - it is one of the strongest REM suppressors 6) zero caffeine - very important. The average half-life of caffeine is 6 hours. That means that after 6 hours, you still have 50% caffeine in your body. 7) write down the following, and try to look at them from time to time: when you eat, what you eat, calories/macros breakdown, when you go to bed, when you fall asleep (approximately), when you wake-up, and a summary of the previous afternoon and night time - what you think is the reason for the sleep (or lack of) on the day of 8) try to fit in with your circadian rhythm. On average: we are at our peak 10AM-3PM - try to fit strenuous activities in this period (including heavy strength training - since I am a remote developer, I can do this). 9) I walk around 8-10 km every day, part of it in the morning, part of it around 20:00 10) try to limit blue light at night - some ideas: dim lights, orange/red glasses filter, orange/red light bulbs. ----- These were the major things that I did, and some combination of them seem to work. I don't know which ones precisely. Some things that didn't work for me: 1) some natural remedies like valerian tea, etc. - it made me worse, actually. 2) meditation - just doesn't work (for me). A lot of people swear by it.. 3) nothing of this sort: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/fall-asleep-fast/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/fall-asleep-fast/ Try to learn something from what you eat - but be brutally honest with yourself and write down everything that contains calories that you eat. I noticed that I sleep worse on the day I eat more sugars (and I hardly eat sugar at all!). Hope this helps someone.. I know how hard it is without sleep.

thesumofall 8y ago

Does anyone have links to solid studies that provide some better answers if there is a significant share of people who can live on little sleep? As they tell you that you won’t recognize yourself if you’ve slept enough, I don’t quite trust my instincts

nabla9 8y ago

Mice have very fast metabolism. Converting mouse models to humans requires adjustment. There is some evidence that for humans eating all calories within 4 hour window might have similar effects.