4 ms·

> But I don’t think it is impossible to build an 808 that would not fool even the most seasoned experts. Whoah, double negative there

squarefoot 8y ago
Triple negative actually. Before some heads explode, I'll attempt to turn it into vulcan approved logic:) "I think it's possible to build an 808 clone that would fool even the most seasoned experts." I'm 100% sure about that since a junction generating noise is just a junction generating noise: color is added by filtering/clipping afterwards. One transistor can be much noisier than others but other stages would compensate level differences anyway. To me the only requirement for building a 808 clone that sounds just as the original is to put it in the same original enclosure; psychology plays a role here: if you put the original 808 circuit into a modern enclosure some people will tell it's a clone and sounds different. I wish I had time and money to make a blind test because I'm totally sure most people, including experts, would be fooled both by a clone in the original case and by the original circuit put in a different enclosure.
- mbu 8y ago
  Wasn't there a study where wine tasters couldn't distinguish red wine from white wine containing red food coloring?
- S_A_P 8y ago
  I agree. I was on another site where we were uploading samples of various owners 808s/808 clones and the results were pretty conclusive that once you match for level and settings you would never know if it was an 808 or a clone. The Yocto is supposed to be as close as possible in design, but does substitute some unavailable parts for modern equivalents. Ive heard a few different Yoctos, and they ranged from dead ringer to way out of adjustment, to unreliable and difficult to build correctly. The fact that it is a kit makes it very difficult to create repeatable results. There are a few other clones out there that I was less impressed with- ACIDLAB MIAMI is in the ballpark but examples Ive heard are not as close as I would hope. For me, Im most interested in the clap, ch, oh, and cy sounds. Those are the most unique sounding to me among analog drum sounds. The hi hat and cymbal sounds are remarkably complex and everything else Ive heard sounds too much like a metallic pulse followed by white/pink noise. The 808 is not necessarily realistic sounding but it is very cool sounding to my ears. The bass drum, which is mainly what made the 808 so popular in the first place, is now pretty easily duplicated or sampled with other synthesis types, but the 808 kick is unique in that it is more a (near)self oscillating filter controlled by an envelope than a pulse followed by sine wave that other analog kicks use. This definitely contributes to its less static, more bouncy kick drum sound, especially at longer decay settings. Its pretty cool that you can program a pattern and on the first pass, subsequent kicks will add to each other, and then the next time around, they cancel each other. This combined with accent can create some very live feeling patterns, and this is a very underrated feature of the 808.
  - squarefoot 8y ago
    If you're interested in claps and cymbals you may find interesting the Boss DR110 schematics here: http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=129 http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=... Especially the voicing board schematics is simpler than the 808 one. Interestingly they used a shift register for noise while cymbals are still made using dissonant oscillators with cmos gates. The schematic though is much easier to read and understand. That drum machine sounded close enough to the 808 to gain its share of popularity when a couple decades after that sound became mainstream, and of course I was stupid enough to sell mine for cheap just before that moment.

squarefoot 8y ago

Triple negative actually. Before some heads explode, I'll attempt to turn it into vulcan approved logic:) "I think it's possible to build an 808 clone that would fool even the most seasoned experts." I'm 100% sure about that since a junction generating noise is just a junction generating noise: color is added by filtering/clipping afterwards. One transistor can be much noisier than others but other stages would compensate level differences anyway. To me the only requirement for building a 808 clone that sounds just as the original is to put it in the same original enclosure; psychology plays a role here: if you put the original 808 circuit into a modern enclosure some people will tell it's a clone and sounds different. I wish I had time and money to make a blind test because I'm totally sure most people, including experts, would be fooled both by a clone in the original case and by the original circuit put in a different enclosure.

mbu 8y ago
Wasn't there a study where wine tasters couldn't distinguish red wine from white wine containing red food coloring?
S_A_P 8y ago
I agree. I was on another site where we were uploading samples of various owners 808s/808 clones and the results were pretty conclusive that once you match for level and settings you would never know if it was an 808 or a clone. The Yocto is supposed to be as close as possible in design, but does substitute some unavailable parts for modern equivalents. Ive heard a few different Yoctos, and they ranged from dead ringer to way out of adjustment, to unreliable and difficult to build correctly. The fact that it is a kit makes it very difficult to create repeatable results. There are a few other clones out there that I was less impressed with- ACIDLAB MIAMI is in the ballpark but examples Ive heard are not as close as I would hope. For me, Im most interested in the clap, ch, oh, and cy sounds. Those are the most unique sounding to me among analog drum sounds. The hi hat and cymbal sounds are remarkably complex and everything else Ive heard sounds too much like a metallic pulse followed by white/pink noise. The 808 is not necessarily realistic sounding but it is very cool sounding to my ears. The bass drum, which is mainly what made the 808 so popular in the first place, is now pretty easily duplicated or sampled with other synthesis types, but the 808 kick is unique in that it is more a (near)self oscillating filter controlled by an envelope than a pulse followed by sine wave that other analog kicks use. This definitely contributes to its less static, more bouncy kick drum sound, especially at longer decay settings. Its pretty cool that you can program a pattern and on the first pass, subsequent kicks will add to each other, and then the next time around, they cancel each other. This combined with accent can create some very live feeling patterns, and this is a very underrated feature of the 808.
- squarefoot 8y ago
  If you're interested in claps and cymbals you may find interesting the Boss DR110 schematics here: http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=129 http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=... Especially the voicing board schematics is simpler than the 808 one. Interestingly they used a shift register for noise while cymbals are still made using dissonant oscillators with cmos gates. The schematic though is much easier to read and understand. That drum machine sounded close enough to the 808 to gain its share of popularity when a couple decades after that sound became mainstream, and of course I was stupid enough to sell mine for cheap just before that moment.