4 ms·

Don’t be obtuse.

projektir 8y ago
I'm not being obtuse: you are implying that we cannot ever criticize capitalism because that means a request for communism. This does not follow. It also shuts down criticism completely, which is never something you want, even for a good system. If I criticize Agile, does that mean I propose Waterfall?
- Sharlin 8y ago
  If you criticize something that’s known to happen both under agile and waterfall, you have to give some sort of a persuasive argument for how it’s actually caused by agile and not something more deep-rooted. Otherwise it’s just a particularly cheap cum hoc ergo propter hoc.
  - projektir 8y ago
    No, I don't, since it was never my interest to begin with to say that Agile is the original mover of all software problems, just like I'm not interested in saying that capitalism is the original mover of all human problems. Criticism of a system has nothing to do with original causality and everything to do with "the system is not accomplishing the goals well enough". It can be done on any system in vacuum, and should be done in vacuum, because dealing with deep rooted causes is part of the package and is one of the reasons we devise systems in the first place. Surely it is ridiculous to say that we can't criticize the US government structure because human corruption is older than the Constitution? Yet this is basically what your argument path is implying. There's nowhere to go from here but doing nothing because, news flash, the deep rooted problems are here to stay, and if we're going to excuse every system from those problems we can as well pack our bags and go back to Feudalism.
    - Sharlin 8y ago
      No, the original commenter threw in ”because capitalism” in a context where that causation is clearly not obvious, and failed to give any justification for the claim. They got justly downvoted for a poor argument.
      - phry 8y ago
        wasn’t really an argument in the first place, but it seems to be quite obvious given that capitalism aims at the maximization of profits, and that slavery is a form of labor that extracts the most wealth from its subjects
- aiyodev 8y ago
  I’m not the person you were talking to previously.

Don’t be obtuse.

I'm not being obtuse: you are implying that we cannot ever criticize capitalism because that means a request for communism. This does not follow. It also shuts down criticism completely, which is never something you want, even for a good system. If I criticize Agile, does that mean I propose Waterfall?

Sharlin 8y ago
If you criticize something that’s known to happen both under agile and waterfall, you have to give some sort of a persuasive argument for how it’s actually caused by agile and not something more deep-rooted. Otherwise it’s just a particularly cheap cum hoc ergo propter hoc.
- projektir 8y ago
  No, I don't, since it was never my interest to begin with to say that Agile is the original mover of all software problems, just like I'm not interested in saying that capitalism is the original mover of all human problems. Criticism of a system has nothing to do with original causality and everything to do with "the system is not accomplishing the goals well enough". It can be done on any system in vacuum, and should be done in vacuum, because dealing with deep rooted causes is part of the package and is one of the reasons we devise systems in the first place. Surely it is ridiculous to say that we can't criticize the US government structure because human corruption is older than the Constitution? Yet this is basically what your argument path is implying. There's nowhere to go from here but doing nothing because, news flash, the deep rooted problems are here to stay, and if we're going to excuse every system from those problems we can as well pack our bags and go back to Feudalism.
  - Sharlin 8y ago
    No, the original commenter threw in ”because capitalism” in a context where that causation is clearly not obvious, and failed to give any justification for the claim. They got justly downvoted for a poor argument.
    - phry 8y ago
      wasn’t really an argument in the first place, but it seems to be quite obvious given that capitalism aims at the maximization of profits, and that slavery is a form of labor that extracts the most wealth from its subjects
aiyodev 8y ago
I’m not the person you were talking to previously.