3 ms·

Melatonin doses of the standard distribution seem great for crazy fucking dreams, but little else. Drinking two Rolling Rocks or PBR distilleries is more effec

Melatonin doses of the standard distribution seem great for crazy fucking dreams, but little else. Drinking two Rolling Rocks or PBR distilleries is more effective;

oceanghost 8y ago
I did this for a decade. If you drink or smoke pot to sleep you will slowly go mad. They suppress deep sleep.
- goldmouth 8y ago
  This is true for alcohol but I'm not sure about cannabis. In California, a heavy indica is a recommended by doctors for sleep. My understanding is that it only affects R.E.M. sleeep. Anecdotally, I track my sleep and when I smoked a heavy indica before bed I would consistently get at high 80 to 90% sleep quality. I'm on a couple of month tolerance break and have a hard time breaking 80% sleep quality.
  - oceanghost 8y ago
    Allow me to refer you to Joe Rogan - Effects of Alcohol and Marijuana on Sleep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNxk8W10wtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNxk8W10wtY I agree that sleep on THC is far better than no sleep at all, but for me, it became a crutch. I couldn't sleep without it. It was hell for traveling.
  - joveian 8y ago
    I think you mean sleep efficiency here not sleep quality? Sleep quality isn't possible to measure precisely without EEG and usually both deep sleep and REM sleep are tracked (and both together are usually less than half of sleep). I recently came accross Babson et al. 2017 Cannabis, Cannabinoids, and Sleep: a Review of the Literature: http://www.med.upenn.edu/cbti/assets/user-content/documents/s11920-017-0775-9.pdf http://www.med.upenn.edu/cbti/assets/user-content/documents/... There hasn't been that much research (and most is on synthetic cb1 and cb2 agonists, not cannabis, and is short term). cb1 and cb2 receptors have different effects, and the dose (especially CBD) and length of use may both make a large difference. IIRC (and maybe not from this particular review) there is evidence that the same receptors may have opposite effects in different parts of the brain. cb1 receptors have a major role in circadian rhythm. Some studies have shown increased slow wave sleep at least at first, but long term use and withdrawal may have the same issues as GABA-A agonists. Your current issues may be withdrawal effects or due to it helping or both. Interestingly, the common anesthetic propofol inhibits an enzyme (FAAH) that breaks down the endocannabinoid anandamide. It might work well to combine endocannabinoid enhancers with other sleep aids (maybe melatonin), however research on those seems aimed at pain relief and hasn't worked out so there don't seem to be any good ones generally available. Pfizer did a Stage 1 sleep trial of the FAAH1 inhibitor PF-04457845 (by itself), but only to make sure it was passing the blood brain barrier. They didn't publish the results but it sounds like they found at least slightly reduced REM sleep (I'm not sure if there was increased deep sleep). Some people have tried oleamide for sleep and it is a cb1 receptor agonist (among many other things including some kind of GABA effect). It sounds like it naturally accumulates during sleep deprevation. Looking online I have mostly found people reporting no effect, although I did see one person with primary insomnia who found it very helpful when cannabis wasn't. One person reported feeling tired and dizy all the time after a few weeks of use (resolving when they stopped) and the person who found it helpful said it felt like it wasn't a good thing to take every day. It is worth noting that it may have a fairly significant and direct dopamine system effect (vs indirect effect of cannabis) and that is one of the most fragile parts of the brain.
- Zarath 8y ago
  Yes, I'm always amazed at people who use pot to sleep. If I smoke I will be up for hours.
  - oceanghost 8y ago
    That's where things get weird. Different people respond to the same medications, differently. I find pot highly sedative. I also find Adderall to be calming. And here's the kicker, I get a great energy from Ketamin.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
Melatonin doses of the standard distribution seem great for crazy fucking dreams, but little else. This suggests to me you are long term dream deprived for some reason, whether due to sleep deprivation or drug use, whether "recreational" or prescription. Anytime you start sleeping better/deeper/more after a long period of sleep deprivation or use of substances that suppress dream function, you have very vivid dreams for a time. This is unavoidable. Alcohol suppresses dreams. So do many other things.
mattbierner 8y ago
Dreams were why I started taking melatonin. Taking it before bed, combined with a dream journal, helped me remember significantly more of my dreams—many of which have been absurdly comedic or indescribably beautiful—although how much of this is placebo vs chemical vs ritual is unclear. Now I still take 3mg most nights, but have gone weeks without it and thankfully the dreams didn’t stop (although alcohol certainly does make them go away for the night). Ymmv

Melatonin doses of the standard distribution seem great for crazy fucking dreams, but little else. Drinking two Rolling Rocks or PBR distilleries is more effective;

oceanghost 8y ago

I did this for a decade. If you drink or smoke pot to sleep you will slowly go mad. They suppress deep sleep.

goldmouth 8y ago
This is true for alcohol but I'm not sure about cannabis. In California, a heavy indica is a recommended by doctors for sleep. My understanding is that it only affects R.E.M. sleeep. Anecdotally, I track my sleep and when I smoked a heavy indica before bed I would consistently get at high 80 to 90% sleep quality. I'm on a couple of month tolerance break and have a hard time breaking 80% sleep quality.
- oceanghost 8y ago
  Allow me to refer you to Joe Rogan - Effects of Alcohol and Marijuana on Sleep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNxk8W10wtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNxk8W10wtY I agree that sleep on THC is far better than no sleep at all, but for me, it became a crutch. I couldn't sleep without it. It was hell for traveling.
- joveian 8y ago
  I think you mean sleep efficiency here not sleep quality? Sleep quality isn't possible to measure precisely without EEG and usually both deep sleep and REM sleep are tracked (and both together are usually less than half of sleep). I recently came accross Babson et al. 2017 Cannabis, Cannabinoids, and Sleep: a Review of the Literature: http://www.med.upenn.edu/cbti/assets/user-content/documents/s11920-017-0775-9.pdf http://www.med.upenn.edu/cbti/assets/user-content/documents/... There hasn't been that much research (and most is on synthetic cb1 and cb2 agonists, not cannabis, and is short term). cb1 and cb2 receptors have different effects, and the dose (especially CBD) and length of use may both make a large difference. IIRC (and maybe not from this particular review) there is evidence that the same receptors may have opposite effects in different parts of the brain. cb1 receptors have a major role in circadian rhythm. Some studies have shown increased slow wave sleep at least at first, but long term use and withdrawal may have the same issues as GABA-A agonists. Your current issues may be withdrawal effects or due to it helping or both. Interestingly, the common anesthetic propofol inhibits an enzyme (FAAH) that breaks down the endocannabinoid anandamide. It might work well to combine endocannabinoid enhancers with other sleep aids (maybe melatonin), however research on those seems aimed at pain relief and hasn't worked out so there don't seem to be any good ones generally available. Pfizer did a Stage 1 sleep trial of the FAAH1 inhibitor PF-04457845 (by itself), but only to make sure it was passing the blood brain barrier. They didn't publish the results but it sounds like they found at least slightly reduced REM sleep (I'm not sure if there was increased deep sleep). Some people have tried oleamide for sleep and it is a cb1 receptor agonist (among many other things including some kind of GABA effect). It sounds like it naturally accumulates during sleep deprevation. Looking online I have mostly found people reporting no effect, although I did see one person with primary insomnia who found it very helpful when cannabis wasn't. One person reported feeling tired and dizy all the time after a few weeks of use (resolving when they stopped) and the person who found it helpful said it felt like it wasn't a good thing to take every day. It is worth noting that it may have a fairly significant and direct dopamine system effect (vs indirect effect of cannabis) and that is one of the most fragile parts of the brain.
Zarath 8y ago
Yes, I'm always amazed at people who use pot to sleep. If I smoke I will be up for hours.
- oceanghost 8y ago
  That's where things get weird. Different people respond to the same medications, differently. I find pot highly sedative. I also find Adderall to be calming. And here's the kicker, I get a great energy from Ketamin.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

Melatonin doses of the standard distribution seem great for crazy fucking dreams, but little else. This suggests to me you are long term dream deprived for some reason, whether due to sleep deprivation or drug use, whether "recreational" or prescription. Anytime you start sleeping better/deeper/more after a long period of sleep deprivation or use of substances that suppress dream function, you have very vivid dreams for a time. This is unavoidable. Alcohol suppresses dreams. So do many other things.

mattbierner 8y ago

Dreams were why I started taking melatonin. Taking it before bed, combined with a dream journal, helped me remember significantly more of my dreams—many of which have been absurdly comedic or indescribably beautiful—although how much of this is placebo vs chemical vs ritual is unclear. Now I still take 3mg most nights, but have gone weeks without it and thankfully the dreams didn’t stop (although alcohol certainly does make them go away for the night). Ymmv