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What's that got to do with modern workplace sexual harassment.

by maym86 8y ago

mirimir 8y ago
I'm not sure. But maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China? That is, maybe reaction against the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guards has reinforced male dominance? Baggage aside, the current Chinese government seems more Confucian than Communist.
- bad_ramen_soup 8y ago
  Isn't it better to see it from the perspective of 'people in power can be sinful', rather than 'because there were some female leaders early on in a (highly propagandistic) movement then they most be on the side of women? Even still, there are many women who harbor men with bad behavior for personal gain.
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    Of course it's better, but how often does human behavior act in better or more logical ways? Humans are not the rational, well-informed beings of economics.
    - bad_ramen_soup 8y ago
      Not sure how this relates to my comment..
  - mirimir 8y ago
    What I'm wondering is whether the Red Guards -- notwithstanding all the horrible stuff -- were less sexist and more egalitarian than the norm today. I have no clue. I'm not Chinese, or lived there, or even studied China carefully. And maybe I'm too influenced by Cixin Liu's "Remembrance of Earth's Past" trilogy.
- girzel 8y ago
  I think the general consensus is that the Communist movement (50s and 60s) actually did a lot for gender equality, given that that was one of the explicit precepts of the new society. China was coming from way, way behind, though, so even if a huge amount of progress was made, it ain't no UC Berkeley. But observing other "psuedo-Confucian" societies like Korea or Japan, it often seems like China's actually comparatively relaxed about gender. Years of living in China left me with the impression that women themselves have come a long way: there are a lot of "tough women" in China, and many of them are very independent minded. Sure, there's also a lot of anxiety about being 26 and unmarried (the horror!), but at this point that anxiety comes as much or more from family pressure, the women themselves are often very "modern-minded". The men, on the other hand, are mostly still in the stone age. The goal of life is to amass money and power, and one of the first things you do when you've got that is get a mistress. Having pretty young things in the office is a must. One of the main perks of authority is that you can screw who you like. The typical university environment, for example, is absolutely disgusting, the male professors are shooting fish in a barrel. And because political and social power is held by men, the government comes down hard on feminism. I always had a hard time getting my head around the way feminism is treated like a political sin, and is censored as such.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China? Women played prominent roles in many revolutions. That didn’t stop the resulting societies from developing depraved sexism. This is a problem many civilisations have faced and solved. Looking for uniquely Chinese causes is a goose chase.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    It's arguably not that China has developed "depraved sexism". I mean, foot binding! Edit: My point is that perhaps evolution of gender equality since the 1949 Chinese Revolution got derailed somehow.
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      > I mean, foot binding! One could probably find mid-century American housewives who would bind their feet if it meant their husbands would stop legally raping them. Point is, we outlawed that behaviour and allowed it to be debated. China’s dictatorship doesn’t seem to be doing that.

What's that got to do with modern workplace sexual harassment.

by maym86 8y ago

What's that got to do with modern workplace sexual harassment.

I'm not sure. But maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China? That is, maybe reaction against the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guards has reinforced male dominance? Baggage aside, the current Chinese government seems more Confucian than Communist.

bad_ramen_soup 8y ago
Isn't it better to see it from the perspective of 'people in power can be sinful', rather than 'because there were some female leaders early on in a (highly propagandistic) movement then they most be on the side of women? Even still, there are many women who harbor men with bad behavior for personal gain.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  Of course it's better, but how often does human behavior act in better or more logical ways? Humans are not the rational, well-informed beings of economics.
  - bad_ramen_soup 8y ago
    Not sure how this relates to my comment..
- mirimir 8y ago
  What I'm wondering is whether the Red Guards -- notwithstanding all the horrible stuff -- were less sexist and more egalitarian than the norm today. I have no clue. I'm not Chinese, or lived there, or even studied China carefully. And maybe I'm too influenced by Cixin Liu's "Remembrance of Earth's Past" trilogy.
girzel 8y ago
I think the general consensus is that the Communist movement (50s and 60s) actually did a lot for gender equality, given that that was one of the explicit precepts of the new society. China was coming from way, way behind, though, so even if a huge amount of progress was made, it ain't no UC Berkeley. But observing other "psuedo-Confucian" societies like Korea or Japan, it often seems like China's actually comparatively relaxed about gender. Years of living in China left me with the impression that women themselves have come a long way: there are a lot of "tough women" in China, and many of them are very independent minded. Sure, there's also a lot of anxiety about being 26 and unmarried (the horror!), but at this point that anxiety comes as much or more from family pressure, the women themselves are often very "modern-minded". The men, on the other hand, are mostly still in the stone age. The goal of life is to amass money and power, and one of the first things you do when you've got that is get a mistress. Having pretty young things in the office is a must. One of the main perks of authority is that you can screw who you like. The typical university environment, for example, is absolutely disgusting, the male professors are shooting fish in a barrel. And because political and social power is held by men, the government comes down hard on feminism. I always had a hard time getting my head around the way feminism is treated like a political sin, and is censored as such.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> maybe it has something to do with the evolution of gender equality in China? Women played prominent roles in many revolutions. That didn’t stop the resulting societies from developing depraved sexism. This is a problem many civilisations have faced and solved. Looking for uniquely Chinese causes is a goose chase.
- mirimir 8y ago
  It's arguably not that China has developed "depraved sexism". I mean, foot binding! Edit: My point is that perhaps evolution of gender equality since the 1949 Chinese Revolution got derailed somehow.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > I mean, foot binding! One could probably find mid-century American housewives who would bind their feet if it meant their husbands would stop legally raping them. Point is, we outlawed that behaviour and allowed it to be debated. China’s dictatorship doesn’t seem to be doing that.