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It's true, I live in Portugal where there are many tourists and Americans talk by far the loudest in my experience. Mind you, they are not 'being loud', they us

It's true, I live in Portugal where there are many tourists and Americans talk by far the loudest in my experience. Mind you, they are not 'being loud', they usually don't annoy at all and don't intend to, they just talk with louder voices than anyone else. Particularly young American men (at 20 or so) talk with loud booming voices that you can barely hear anywhere else. I don't think there are any physiological reasons, it just seems to be a minor cultural difference, but I wonder what the reasons are. The school system, maybe? College? Another small difference I've noticed over the years, and, again, I don't mean this in any disrespectful way: Some if not many US Americans don't know how to use knife and fork in the "European way". They don't know how to turn the fork elegantly after cutting meat. Instead, they cut everything first and then use the fork in the right hand for eating. This must have historical reasons, maybe it also differs from state to state?

lovemenot 8y ago
>> they cut everything first and then use the fork in the right hand for eating I am European too, but I heard this from an American. A knife is a weapon. They try to quickly get it out of their hand, in order that everyone else is able to relax.
- arkades 8y ago
  No, that’s not a thing here. Your American was pulling stuff out of his keister. Many Americans don’t learn to properly use a knife and fork because of the ubiquity of fast food - many of us never really have to. Go to a part of the country that’s upper SES, everyone knows how to properly use a knife and fork.
swah 8y ago
Its a known thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNE2DhQ1AZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNE2DhQ1AZ4 I think I eat the "American way" here in Brazil. I eat rice and beans almost every lunch and I just have to use the fork as a spoon.. -edit- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fypq2qhRZnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fypq2qhRZnI Also worth noting that both ways are considered good etiquette in this video, but considered childish by most people commenting. The european way seems to a piece of meat in the end of the fork to "hold" the vegetables/rice - but this would depend on always having meat available until you finish the plate? Its complex...
- ajmurmann 8y ago
  It's true that Europeans keep the fork in the left hand, but I've never seen anyone keep it with the tined pointing down and doing that meat blocker thing. I'm used to the fork bring returned to tines up position after cutting meat and then the knife gets used to gently push food onto the fork.
ajmurmann 8y ago
My theory is that the US is a much less formal society and eating the European way is hard and requires training and correction by parents. If the goal is to just get food in your mouth with a fork and knife you end up eating much closer to the American way. It's worth noting that my wife who grew up in a very formal household in NYC eats the European way.
iguy 8y ago
Re forks, I believe there was a historical difference in which the American etiquette rule was that, after cutting food, you had to put the knife down, move fork to right hand, and then eat. The English rule instead was to keep the fork in the left hand both while cutting and for eating food. Neither would rotate the fork to shovel position. Edit: spent 10 minutes googling for the right Miss Manners link, but failed. However I may be wrong on the shovel thing, that may actually be encouraged, I'm not sure.
- saltcured 8y ago
  I was definitely taught to eat this way, scolded if I didn't put the knife down and return the fork to my right hand, along with when to abandon a piece as inedible, rather than change from eater to butcher. I am pretty sure I was also trained to use the fork to lift food and not to stab at it. It amuses me to hear this called "shoveling" as the intent is to be less crude. I was likewise trained to only dip a spoon away from me, which avoids any impression of shoveling or bailing food towards the face. Also, numerous details about the staging of bread and butter to a bread plate and when to break it by hand and when to take a bite. My casual adult practices and lost memories would definitely disappoint my maternal ancestors... My mother was from a mixed family of blue-bloods from the US northeast and German immigrants a couple generations removed. She probably married "down" with my father, my inculcation thus diluted. She didn't talk about it much, but I think there was some pressure to conform to those blue blood ways within her extended family. I believe her sister was involved in the Daughters of the American Revolution and was also put through some sort of finishing school when young. I hear an odd echo of that aunt whenever I hear Martha Stewart speak. I remember events with very formal table settings when I was a small child, though I have forgotten many of the procedural details for upwards of 5 utensils per place. All of this is to say: it is a formal cultural practice at least in parts of the US, not some absence of training. I would also believe it has some origins in a display of disarming, much like a hand-shake and other rituals. I wonder if anyone from the UK can comment on whether there are notable regional or class-based practices and any that seem to match the American method described here. I would expect there were British roots, though it might have died out. More practically, the US method limits eating to a polite pace. Out of context, European and East Asian eating methods look extremely crude to an American eye, with people shoveling, lapping, and slurping food towards their faces. In context, I of course realize they are culturally expected and my American way would seem odd or perhaps even disdainful. As an aside, I found it interesting to learn how Thai people use a fork and spoon. They use a spoon in their right hand much like an American uses a fork, except they may keep a fork ready in the left to assist in loading much like a European uses their knife (but with hands reversed). But, if an item needs to be cut, the spoon is suddenly a knife without any hand switching and the fork may control the item as it does in American hands.
gowld 8y ago
America was founded on the principle of egalitarianism (despite the flawed implementation), so class-shibboleth etiquette rules like formal-dancing with your fork while you eat didn't take deep hold here.

lovemenot 8y ago

>> they cut everything first and then use the fork in the right hand for eating I am European too, but I heard this from an American. A knife is a weapon. They try to quickly get it out of their hand, in order that everyone else is able to relax.

arkades 8y ago
No, that’s not a thing here. Your American was pulling stuff out of his keister. Many Americans don’t learn to properly use a knife and fork because of the ubiquity of fast food - many of us never really have to. Go to a part of the country that’s upper SES, everyone knows how to properly use a knife and fork.

swah 8y ago

Its a known thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNE2DhQ1AZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNE2DhQ1AZ4 I think I eat the "American way" here in Brazil. I eat rice and beans almost every lunch and I just have to use the fork as a spoon.. -edit- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fypq2qhRZnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fypq2qhRZnI Also worth noting that both ways are considered good etiquette in this video, but considered childish by most people commenting. The european way seems to a piece of meat in the end of the fork to "hold" the vegetables/rice - but this would depend on always having meat available until you finish the plate? Its complex...

ajmurmann 8y ago
It's true that Europeans keep the fork in the left hand, but I've never seen anyone keep it with the tined pointing down and doing that meat blocker thing. I'm used to the fork bring returned to tines up position after cutting meat and then the knife gets used to gently push food onto the fork.

ajmurmann 8y ago

My theory is that the US is a much less formal society and eating the European way is hard and requires training and correction by parents. If the goal is to just get food in your mouth with a fork and knife you end up eating much closer to the American way. It's worth noting that my wife who grew up in a very formal household in NYC eats the European way.

iguy 8y ago

Re forks, I believe there was a historical difference in which the American etiquette rule was that, after cutting food, you had to put the knife down, move fork to right hand, and then eat. The English rule instead was to keep the fork in the left hand both while cutting and for eating food. Neither would rotate the fork to shovel position. Edit: spent 10 minutes googling for the right Miss Manners link, but failed. However I may be wrong on the shovel thing, that may actually be encouraged, I'm not sure.

saltcured 8y ago
I was definitely taught to eat this way, scolded if I didn't put the knife down and return the fork to my right hand, along with when to abandon a piece as inedible, rather than change from eater to butcher. I am pretty sure I was also trained to use the fork to lift food and not to stab at it. It amuses me to hear this called "shoveling" as the intent is to be less crude. I was likewise trained to only dip a spoon away from me, which avoids any impression of shoveling or bailing food towards the face. Also, numerous details about the staging of bread and butter to a bread plate and when to break it by hand and when to take a bite. My casual adult practices and lost memories would definitely disappoint my maternal ancestors... My mother was from a mixed family of blue-bloods from the US northeast and German immigrants a couple generations removed. She probably married "down" with my father, my inculcation thus diluted. She didn't talk about it much, but I think there was some pressure to conform to those blue blood ways within her extended family. I believe her sister was involved in the Daughters of the American Revolution and was also put through some sort of finishing school when young. I hear an odd echo of that aunt whenever I hear Martha Stewart speak. I remember events with very formal table settings when I was a small child, though I have forgotten many of the procedural details for upwards of 5 utensils per place. All of this is to say: it is a formal cultural practice at least in parts of the US, not some absence of training. I would also believe it has some origins in a display of disarming, much like a hand-shake and other rituals. I wonder if anyone from the UK can comment on whether there are notable regional or class-based practices and any that seem to match the American method described here. I would expect there were British roots, though it might have died out. More practically, the US method limits eating to a polite pace. Out of context, European and East Asian eating methods look extremely crude to an American eye, with people shoveling, lapping, and slurping food towards their faces. In context, I of course realize they are culturally expected and my American way would seem odd or perhaps even disdainful. As an aside, I found it interesting to learn how Thai people use a fork and spoon. They use a spoon in their right hand much like an American uses a fork, except they may keep a fork ready in the left to assist in loading much like a European uses their knife (but with hands reversed). But, if an item needs to be cut, the spoon is suddenly a knife without any hand switching and the fork may control the item as it does in American hands.

gowld 8y ago

America was founded on the principle of egalitarianism (despite the flawed implementation), so class-shibboleth etiquette rules like formal-dancing with your fork while you eat didn't take deep hold here.