3 ms·

> In the Starbucks case, Mr. Amaya said that the court found the chain “just relied on the idea that a few minutes doesn’t mean anything, and the Court said tha

> In the Starbucks case, Mr. Amaya said that the court found the chain “just relied on the idea that a few minutes doesn’t mean anything, and the Court said that sort of attitude won’t fly in California.” The decision's not too surprising, then. "No big deal" carries zero persuasive value: it only works as a supposed argument when the person hearing it already agrees. While Starbucks had no problem stealing 4-10 minutes a day from the plaintiff for regularly scheduled closing tasks as a matter of policy, I somehow doubt they would've scoffed and hand-waved away him clocking in every day 10 minutes before he actually arrived.

draw_down 8y ago
Exactly. It’s only not a big deal when they’re the ones stealing the time. Wage theft is a huge problem in America.
pasbesoin 8y ago
The disparity is important to point out. Companies -- many, speaking in general -- will go through contortions and "chain of command anger transmission" over any overtime, and efforts to avoid same. Likewise, efforts to keep employees below the number of clocked hours that would qualify them for benefits. (Some places, this is or used to be 30 hours / week.) On the other side of the coin, though, many employees have to buffer their time to make sure they don't clock in a second late. (And, once you're there ahead of shift, often you will be asked or expected to "help out" with something, on an "impromptu basis". This also uses personal loyalty to effect unclocked work; your co-workers may be your friends, and how can you say no to them when they could use the help? When actually, if the place is short-handed prior to your shift start, this is a workforce and scheduling problem on the part of the employer.) And, for example, employees have to struggle between providing the expected level of customer support and patience, with lingering or last-minute customers -- which takes away from overlapping scheduled closing preparations -- while not (officially, at least) going over the mandated hours limit completing the delayed closing. Businesses try to squeeze out every second of possible idle time, while shoving the responsibility and expense for any variations that cause overages, onto the employees. In the "salaried" pay domain, in the U.S., many employees are required to be present 40 hours / week, even when things are slack. If they perform better and get their workload done early, they are required to stick around like an hourly employee (and may get more impromptu work assigned, as a "reward"). But, when demand is higher or a crunch hits, they are expected to stay as much longer as it takes -- for no additional pay. The benefits of a salaried position's fixed pay rate, accumulate mostly to the employer. Any actual schedule flexibility for the employee, devolves to their manager and HR. Who may try to be "fair" (and, as I've seen, often more senior management and HR policy hamstring immediate managers in doing this) or who may play favorites -- or just try to make themselves look better with the appearance of a "dedicated", "hard-driving" staff -- that they've "obviously motivated". In the U.S., we have a lot of overall wealth. We could make a lot of lives better, spending a bit of it on more appropriate staffing. But we don't. And, no one will act in a way that makes them "less competitive" (e.g. "higher costs"), unless there's a common requirement -- a level playing field -- one that has effective teeth. THAT'S what 40 hours, and laws and regulations about overages, are meant to be. Compete -- that's fine. Just, you can't -- none of you -- step over this line, where we define employee abuse as starting. And why do we have government enforcement? (And unions, etc.) Because it's awfully hard for an individual employee to fight a business, with its much more substantial resources and influence. (Also, there is already tremendous complaint about lawsuits and torts and... Does anyone really want more of that? Arguably, many businesses would rather have common standards defined and enforced. Less legal hassle -- and, if everyone has to abide by them, still a level playing field on which to compete.) AND NOW, add a world economy to the mix, with vastly differing standards. What does that do to your domestic labor marketplace? (This is a rhetorical question.) Back to this case and the U.S. I'm glad circumstances like these are getting called out and addressed. People need to think more about these matters, not less.

draw_down 8y ago

Exactly. It’s only not a big deal when they’re the ones stealing the time. Wage theft is a huge problem in America.

pasbesoin 8y ago

The disparity is important to point out. Companies -- many, speaking in general -- will go through contortions and "chain of command anger transmission" over any overtime, and efforts to avoid same. Likewise, efforts to keep employees below the number of clocked hours that would qualify them for benefits. (Some places, this is or used to be 30 hours / week.) On the other side of the coin, though, many employees have to buffer their time to make sure they don't clock in a second late. (And, once you're there ahead of shift, often you will be asked or expected to "help out" with something, on an "impromptu basis". This also uses personal loyalty to effect unclocked work; your co-workers may be your friends, and how can you say no to them when they could use the help? When actually, if the place is short-handed prior to your shift start, this is a workforce and scheduling problem on the part of the employer.) And, for example, employees have to struggle between providing the expected level of customer support and patience, with lingering or last-minute customers -- which takes away from overlapping scheduled closing preparations -- while not (officially, at least) going over the mandated hours limit completing the delayed closing. Businesses try to squeeze out every second of possible idle time, while shoving the responsibility and expense for any variations that cause overages, onto the employees. In the "salaried" pay domain, in the U.S., many employees are required to be present 40 hours / week, even when things are slack. If they perform better and get their workload done early, they are required to stick around like an hourly employee (and may get more impromptu work assigned, as a "reward"). But, when demand is higher or a crunch hits, they are expected to stay as much longer as it takes -- for no additional pay. The benefits of a salaried position's fixed pay rate, accumulate mostly to the employer. Any actual schedule flexibility for the employee, devolves to their manager and HR. Who may try to be "fair" (and, as I've seen, often more senior management and HR policy hamstring immediate managers in doing this) or who may play favorites -- or just try to make themselves look better with the appearance of a "dedicated", "hard-driving" staff -- that they've "obviously motivated". In the U.S., we have a lot of overall wealth. We could make a lot of lives better, spending a bit of it on more appropriate staffing. But we don't. And, no one will act in a way that makes them "less competitive" (e.g. "higher costs"), unless there's a common requirement -- a level playing field -- one that has effective teeth. THAT'S what 40 hours, and laws and regulations about overages, are meant to be. Compete -- that's fine. Just, you can't -- none of you -- step over this line, where we define employee abuse as starting. And why do we have government enforcement? (And unions, etc.) Because it's awfully hard for an individual employee to fight a business, with its much more substantial resources and influence. (Also, there is already tremendous complaint about lawsuits and torts and... Does anyone really want more of that? Arguably, many businesses would rather have common standards defined and enforced. Less legal hassle -- and, if everyone has to abide by them, still a level playing field on which to compete.) AND NOW, add a world economy to the mix, with vastly differing standards. What does that do to your domestic labor marketplace? (This is a rhetorical question.) Back to this case and the U.S. I'm glad circumstances like these are getting called out and addressed. People need to think more about these matters, not less.