8 ms·

Planet Money on Bay Area Housing Costs

50 points by akanet 8y ago

justinzollars 8y ago
“local governments have made it hard to build housing” “self inflicted shortage” “restrictive zoning” “local councils get involved that can file endless appeals” “Governments create a housing shortage” ^ Real Issue #TechCafeterias ^ Fake Issue
mothers 8y ago
I disagree that there's a crisis. There are many tech workers who can afford to pay the prices. I agree that there are also many dysfunctional zoning practices as well as laws (Proposition 13). People have 3 options in general: 1. Make more money. 2. Leave. 3. Endure. Option 1 is what a large fraction of the Bay Area has done. Whether or not it's a bubble is another conversation. It's pretty much clear that Bay Area tech jobs pay more than anywhere else on the planet. Even when taking into account the cost of living, you will save more money in absolute terms living in the Bay Area than anywhere else. Option 2 is already happening [1]. Option 3 is the strange thing. If people hate the prices and general cost of living that much, why won't they leave? Temperate weather, job opportunities and family are many reasons among the many. Regardless, these factors are already factored into the price. By staying one simply reinforces the positive qualities while having no stake (home ownership). The conclusion is there is no crisis. As far as the backward laws and zoning policies. Don't hold your breath -- for Prop 13 in particular that's state wide and the majority of Californians own [2]. As for zoning -- let's just say there's zero incentive for it to be relaxed. Summary: make more money or leave. Sorry. The irony is that the logic of the people who insist people should be able to live in their own community for reasons is the same that resulted in Prop 13 and in making zoning laws strict to prevent newcomers -- who would change the community from what the original migrants had when they arrived. The preservationist entitled attitude is the problem. If people just left the problem would resolve itself. Teachers would be paid more to prevent mass leaving, etc. etc. [1] https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265?platform=hootsuite https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265?platform=ho... [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/ca/PST045217 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/ca/PST045217
- ajmurmann 8y ago
  Yeah, all those people who drive my Lyft, deliver my Good Eggs, Rabbit my Tasks or teach my children in public school and those nurses should just commute every day from Modesto or Dublin! Or you know maybe just move away if they are too poor.
  - mothers 8y ago
    Yes, exactly. No one is entitled to live anywhere. Don't be ridiculous. If they were willing to move they would accordingly become scarce and therefore more valuable and an equilibrium would met. By staying they are simply harming themselves -- to what end? Plenty of people move away from the Bay Area for cost reasons. This is the same dilemma that has inhibited them from gaining leverage politically that would resolve the zoning issues.
    - mccarthyism2 8y ago
      The stupid, it hurts.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Where should the non-tech workers of the Bay Area live?
      - mothers 8y ago
        Anywhere they can afford to.
        jonhendry18 8y ago
        Enjoy the garbage piling up in the streets when garbage collectors can't afford to live there.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        They should leave the Bay Area. I wouldn’t go near the Bay Area to live. I have a nice comfortable life in a major metro area in a good school system where my mortgage on my brand new build 3000 square foot house is around $2000.
dashmatte 8y ago
Poor black people grew up right around all this success and no ones bothered to teach them to code or intern or anything. It's amazing. In NYC they have black people going to newly open open tech colleges in Brooklyn. Most of you pretend to be liberal but never once tried to help the people on the other side of the tracks.
dredmorbius 8y ago
Land value tax. Prop 13 is destroying California.
true_tuna 8y ago
Here’s a crazy idea. Every time a city in California permits construction to add a job, the city has to permit construction for a home. Mountain View spent a decade adding Google jobs while adding zero new places for the workers live. Now everyone scratches their heads about why the traffic on 101 is absurd. There’s a vacant lot smack in the middle of Google campus zoned for hotel. Permit a residential high rise in that lot and see what happens.

50 points by akanet 8y ago

“local governments have made it hard to build housing” “self inflicted shortage” “restrictive zoning” “local councils get involved that can file endless appeals” “Governments create a housing shortage” ^ Real Issue #TechCafeterias ^ Fake Issue

mothers 8y ago

I disagree that there's a crisis. There are many tech workers who can afford to pay the prices. I agree that there are also many dysfunctional zoning practices as well as laws (Proposition 13). People have 3 options in general: 1. Make more money. 2. Leave. 3. Endure. Option 1 is what a large fraction of the Bay Area has done. Whether or not it's a bubble is another conversation. It's pretty much clear that Bay Area tech jobs pay more than anywhere else on the planet. Even when taking into account the cost of living, you will save more money in absolute terms living in the Bay Area than anywhere else. Option 2 is already happening [1]. Option 3 is the strange thing. If people hate the prices and general cost of living that much, why won't they leave? Temperate weather, job opportunities and family are many reasons among the many. Regardless, these factors are already factored into the price. By staying one simply reinforces the positive qualities while having no stake (home ownership). The conclusion is there is no crisis. As far as the backward laws and zoning policies. Don't hold your breath -- for Prop 13 in particular that's state wide and the majority of Californians own [2]. As for zoning -- let's just say there's zero incentive for it to be relaxed. Summary: make more money or leave. Sorry. The irony is that the logic of the people who insist people should be able to live in their own community for reasons is the same that resulted in Prop 13 and in making zoning laws strict to prevent newcomers -- who would change the community from what the original migrants had when they arrived. The preservationist entitled attitude is the problem. If people just left the problem would resolve itself. Teachers would be paid more to prevent mass leaving, etc. etc. [1] https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265?platform=hootsuite https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265?platform=ho... [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/ca/PST045217 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/ca/PST045217

ajmurmann 8y ago
Yeah, all those people who drive my Lyft, deliver my Good Eggs, Rabbit my Tasks or teach my children in public school and those nurses should just commute every day from Modesto or Dublin! Or you know maybe just move away if they are too poor.
- mothers 8y ago
  Yes, exactly. No one is entitled to live anywhere. Don't be ridiculous. If they were willing to move they would accordingly become scarce and therefore more valuable and an equilibrium would met. By staying they are simply harming themselves -- to what end? Plenty of people move away from the Bay Area for cost reasons. This is the same dilemma that has inhibited them from gaining leverage politically that would resolve the zoning issues.
  - mccarthyism2 8y ago
    The stupid, it hurts.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Where should the non-tech workers of the Bay Area live?
    - mothers 8y ago
      Anywhere they can afford to.
      - jonhendry18 8y ago
        Enjoy the garbage piling up in the streets when garbage collectors can't afford to live there.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      They should leave the Bay Area. I wouldn’t go near the Bay Area to live. I have a nice comfortable life in a major metro area in a good school system where my mortgage on my brand new build 3000 square foot house is around $2000.

dashmatte 8y ago

Poor black people grew up right around all this success and no ones bothered to teach them to code or intern or anything. It's amazing. In NYC they have black people going to newly open open tech colleges in Brooklyn. Most of you pretend to be liberal but never once tried to help the people on the other side of the tracks.

dredmorbius 8y ago

Land value tax. Prop 13 is destroying California.

true_tuna 8y ago

Here’s a crazy idea. Every time a city in California permits construction to add a job, the city has to permit construction for a home. Mountain View spent a decade adding Google jobs while adding zero new places for the workers live. Now everyone scratches their heads about why the traffic on 101 is absurd. There’s a vacant lot smack in the middle of Google campus zoned for hotel. Permit a residential high rise in that lot and see what happens.