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German just has a real knack for clarity and simplicity because of this composibility. Some examples I like: - Satzbau = Syntax: I always found it hard to reme

German just has a real knack for clarity and simplicity because of this composibility. Some examples I like: - Satzbau = Syntax: I always found it hard to remember what syntax meant. The German word, being the combination of "sentence" and "construction" requires no memorization - Teilchen = Particle: In German, "part" + domunitive ending - Jahrhundert, Jahrzehnt = century, decade: literally "year" + "hundred"/"ten" - Neugier = curiousity: "new" + "greed" I do wonder if this "composibility" is actually the norm for languages and English is just the odd one out. Having a large vocabulary from other languages (e.g. Latin) obscures the meaning of some word roots (e.g. particula - pars + diminutive, just like in German) so you have to just memorize it as one chunk. So perhaps the benefit of other languages like German is just their purity/consistency.

zerb 8y ago
I believe it's just that the etymologies in English are more obscure. They're still fascinating, but they come from foreign roots a lot of the time, so they're not as immediately obvious. Although, tangentially, even constructions that are just compounds of 2 English words or so slip past my notice. I can't think of any examples on the spot, but I've definitely gone decades without really parsing apart common English idioms or compound nouns until one day, when I finally notice "oh that's why we say that".
Pmop 8y ago
Laptop and notebook comes to mind. Maybe English does have this mechanism but to a less extent? Interesting enough, Portuguese also does compounding to some extent (Bear in mind it's a romance language). My favorite English feature is how you can pick a substantive and use it as a verb. Mostly makes sense, specially if there's evident connotation behind the substantive.
dredmorbius 8y ago
The English etymology is more indirect, but essentially means the same thing, by way of Latin and Greek: c. 1600, from French syntaxe (16c.) and directly from Late Latin syntaxis, from Greek syntaxis "a putting together or in order, arrangement, a grammatical construction," from stem of syntassein "put in order," from syn- "together" (see syn-) + tassein "arrange" (see tactics). https://www.etymonline.com/word/syntax https://www.etymonline.com/word/syntax (One of my favourite wwebsites.)
- blattimwind 8y ago
  > The English etymology is more indirect, but essentially means the same thing, by way of Latin and Greek: ... meaning you can't understand many terms if you only know English, because they are actually french/latin/greek. "Cache" is actually an example of this.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    Or, putting on my optimist's glasses: learn enough English etymology, and you'll learn Latin, Greek, German, French, Italian, Hindi, Celtic, Klingon, ...
- matt-snider 8y ago
  It's really interesting reading up on etymologies like that - thanks for the link! This is what I meant about the meaning being obscured too much, so it has to be simply memorized as one chunk.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    I ... can spend a lot of time at Etym Online. Some fun finds: vodka, pollution, pen, fiction, dough.
    - zerb 8y ago
      What do you think of Wiktionary? That's been my go-to for a long time.
      - dredmorbius 8y ago
        Strictly on a UI/UX basis, it beats most other online dictionaries for not being annoying A.F. I haven't done a close evaluation, but itcompares favourably generally. I also use dict (Debian), which is mostly Foldoc and 1913 Webster. As well as several dead-tree dictionaaries & etymological dictionaries. Those stand up surprisingly poorly to online references in several cases, though the OED still proves useful.
olavk 8y ago
It is just a question of orthography. In German, compound nouns are written without space, as a single word. In English, they are usually (but not always) written with space. So "Christmas tree" is "Weinachtsbaum". This is sometimes made out to be much more mysterious than it is, as if German is more "composable" or something, but the only difference is the typographical space. English is just more difficult to spell because there no simple rule for when a compound is written with or without space (or with a dash, as is sometimes the case). E.g. Christmas is Christ + mass, but is written in a single word.
- matt-snider 8y ago
  While you are correct to some extent, I do find German to be much more consistent in this regard. In many cases this may just be due to English's distance from it's root (i.e. Latin, French). As it was pointed out below, "syntax" is also a composition of two simpler words - they just aren't words we know. In German, there are also loan words from Latin and French, but I do have the impression it is not to the same extent, and the German language is quite consistent.
  - weinzierl 8y ago
    As a German native speaker I find German much more confusing in this regard. Maybe this is because I don't know the rules in English well enough[1] but for German I can give you a few examples of the complications we have to deal with: From grandparent: > In German, compound nouns are written without space, as a single word. This is true, but the difficulty is to know when two or more nouns are considered a compound noun (Zusammensetzung) or just a group of words (Wortgruppe). For example consider the following (real) street names: - Schleißheimer Straße - Hohenzollernstraße - Leuchtenbergerstraße Straße is simply street. Schleißheim is the name of a place. Schleißheimer Straße is written as two separate words because the rule [2] says that combinations with geographic names ending in -er that signify a place (and not the people living in that place, for example) are usually not considered compounds. A simple counterexample would be Hohenzollernstraße with Hohenzollern referring to the House of Hohenzollern. Now consider a case like Leuchtenbergerstraße. Leuchtenberger can refer to the place called Leuchtenberg or the Duke of Leuchtenberg. It would be written Leuchtenberger Straße if it had to do anything with the city of Leuchtenberg, maybe leading to that place. If it is named in the honor of the Duke it would be written Leuchtenbergerstraße. Another problem is that often nouns are not simply slapped together. Adding an additional s (Fugen-s[3]) between the words is very common. For example: traffic is Verkehr, sign is Zeichen, traffic sign is not Verkehrzeichen but Verkehrszeichen. On the other hand: tax is Steuer and transfer tax is Verkehrsteuer, but not Verkehrsssteuer. dog is Hund and leash is Leine. A dog leash is a Hundeleine, addding an additional e in this case. Sometimes nothing is added but something removed: crown is Krone, prince is Prinz and a crown prince is a Kronprinz, leaving out the final e in Krone. Compounding in German is complicated and weird. [1] The only rule i know is: "It's written as two words, except for a few well known exceptions." I suspect that there is more to it and I'd be happy for any enlightenment. [2] https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/getrennt-und-zusammenschreibung#K64 https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/getrenn... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nouns#Compounds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nouns#Compounds

zerb 8y ago

I believe it's just that the etymologies in English are more obscure. They're still fascinating, but they come from foreign roots a lot of the time, so they're not as immediately obvious. Although, tangentially, even constructions that are just compounds of 2 English words or so slip past my notice. I can't think of any examples on the spot, but I've definitely gone decades without really parsing apart common English idioms or compound nouns until one day, when I finally notice "oh that's why we say that".

Pmop 8y ago

Laptop and notebook comes to mind. Maybe English does have this mechanism but to a less extent? Interesting enough, Portuguese also does compounding to some extent (Bear in mind it's a romance language). My favorite English feature is how you can pick a substantive and use it as a verb. Mostly makes sense, specially if there's evident connotation behind the substantive.

dredmorbius 8y ago

The English etymology is more indirect, but essentially means the same thing, by way of Latin and Greek: c. 1600, from French syntaxe (16c.) and directly from Late Latin syntaxis, from Greek syntaxis "a putting together or in order, arrangement, a grammatical construction," from stem of syntassein "put in order," from syn- "together" (see syn-) + tassein "arrange" (see tactics). https://www.etymonline.com/word/syntax https://www.etymonline.com/word/syntax (One of my favourite wwebsites.)

blattimwind 8y ago
> The English etymology is more indirect, but essentially means the same thing, by way of Latin and Greek: ... meaning you can't understand many terms if you only know English, because they are actually french/latin/greek. "Cache" is actually an example of this.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  Or, putting on my optimist's glasses: learn enough English etymology, and you'll learn Latin, Greek, German, French, Italian, Hindi, Celtic, Klingon, ...
matt-snider 8y ago
It's really interesting reading up on etymologies like that - thanks for the link! This is what I meant about the meaning being obscured too much, so it has to be simply memorized as one chunk.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  I ... can spend a lot of time at Etym Online. Some fun finds: vodka, pollution, pen, fiction, dough.
  - zerb 8y ago
    What do you think of Wiktionary? That's been my go-to for a long time.
    - dredmorbius 8y ago
      Strictly on a UI/UX basis, it beats most other online dictionaries for not being annoying A.F. I haven't done a close evaluation, but itcompares favourably generally. I also use dict (Debian), which is mostly Foldoc and 1913 Webster. As well as several dead-tree dictionaaries & etymological dictionaries. Those stand up surprisingly poorly to online references in several cases, though the OED still proves useful.

olavk 8y ago

It is just a question of orthography. In German, compound nouns are written without space, as a single word. In English, they are usually (but not always) written with space. So "Christmas tree" is "Weinachtsbaum". This is sometimes made out to be much more mysterious than it is, as if German is more "composable" or something, but the only difference is the typographical space. English is just more difficult to spell because there no simple rule for when a compound is written with or without space (or with a dash, as is sometimes the case). E.g. Christmas is Christ + mass, but is written in a single word.

matt-snider 8y ago
While you are correct to some extent, I do find German to be much more consistent in this regard. In many cases this may just be due to English's distance from it's root (i.e. Latin, French). As it was pointed out below, "syntax" is also a composition of two simpler words - they just aren't words we know. In German, there are also loan words from Latin and French, but I do have the impression it is not to the same extent, and the German language is quite consistent.
- weinzierl 8y ago
  As a German native speaker I find German much more confusing in this regard. Maybe this is because I don't know the rules in English well enough[1] but for German I can give you a few examples of the complications we have to deal with: From grandparent: > In German, compound nouns are written without space, as a single word. This is true, but the difficulty is to know when two or more nouns are considered a compound noun (Zusammensetzung) or just a group of words (Wortgruppe). For example consider the following (real) street names: - Schleißheimer Straße - Hohenzollernstraße - Leuchtenbergerstraße Straße is simply street. Schleißheim is the name of a place. Schleißheimer Straße is written as two separate words because the rule [2] says that combinations with geographic names ending in -er that signify a place (and not the people living in that place, for example) are usually not considered compounds. A simple counterexample would be Hohenzollernstraße with Hohenzollern referring to the House of Hohenzollern. Now consider a case like Leuchtenbergerstraße. Leuchtenberger can refer to the place called Leuchtenberg or the Duke of Leuchtenberg. It would be written Leuchtenberger Straße if it had to do anything with the city of Leuchtenberg, maybe leading to that place. If it is named in the honor of the Duke it would be written Leuchtenbergerstraße. Another problem is that often nouns are not simply slapped together. Adding an additional s (Fugen-s[3]) between the words is very common. For example: traffic is Verkehr, sign is Zeichen, traffic sign is not Verkehrzeichen but Verkehrszeichen. On the other hand: tax is Steuer and transfer tax is Verkehrsteuer, but not Verkehrsssteuer. dog is Hund and leash is Leine. A dog leash is a Hundeleine, addding an additional e in this case. Sometimes nothing is added but something removed: crown is Krone, prince is Prinz and a crown prince is a Kronprinz, leaving out the final e in Krone. Compounding in German is complicated and weird. [1] The only rule i know is: "It's written as two words, except for a few well known exceptions." I suspect that there is more to it and I'd be happy for any enlightenment. [2] https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/getrennt-und-zusammenschreibung#K64 https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/rechtschreibregeln/getrenn... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nouns#Compounds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nouns#Compounds