4 ms·

That is ...good. We should be funneling more women and minorities into lucrative majors like CS and engineering.

AmericanChopper 8y ago
Problem with that is women and minorities are all individual people who make their own decisions about what they want to do in life. What does a funnel look like? Forced degrees? Forced employment?
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  Probably just a less obviously-hostile environment would be a good start.
  - AmericanChopper 8y ago
    What exactly is obviously hostile about our universities? Is it the safe spaces? Is it the lower standards applied to minorities and women to make it easier to get in? Is it all of the scholarships open only to minorities and women? Universities are quite obviously the most inclusive and least hostile place in the world for minorities and women.
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      Yeah, talking about the industry generally. I see you already have your “safe spaces” straw man all set up so I think I’ll just leave you to it.
      - AmericanChopper 8y ago
        It’s not a straw man at all, it’s an accurate description of acedemia. Now you’re saying it’s the industry’s fault (never mind that the industry generally practices the same affirmative action as universities do). But that can’t possibly be the case because the industry doesn’t have enough female and minority stem graduates to hire “enough” women and minorities.
    - wnissen 8y ago
      The percentage of all PhDs earned by women has just, in the last ten years, hit 50%. Of the STEM fields only biology has over 50%, and engineering, physics, and math are in the 20s. A lot of strides have been made, but "most inclusive and least hostile" is not born out by the data. https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/fraction-phd.cfm https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/fraction-p...
      - AmericanChopper 8y ago
        You’re aware this is circular reasoning right? >Why aren’t there more women studying stem? Because University is a hostile environment. >How do you know that? Because there aren’t more women studying stem.
    - groby_b 8y ago
      Assuming you even have a degree: People like you. People who parrot the same sound bites you do. That's what is making our universities hostile.
      - AmericanChopper 8y ago
        You know this isn’t a rational argument at all right? You’re literally defending a baseless assertion with “no, you!”.
        Latteland 8y ago
        You do come across as having a negative attitude toward women and minorities because you are saying they only got in because someone let them in, they are expected to be lesser.
        AmericanChopper 8y ago
        I’m not saying that at all. But that is exactly the message affirmative action sends to applicants. In general they are both sexist and racist, even to those they supposedly benefit. What I said was that even with systemic advantages put in place encouraging women and minorities (excluding Asians of course, because for some reason they don’t count) to join stem courses, they still show a statistically significant preference to do other majors. If you think I have a negative attitude towards any group, it’s not because of anything I’ve said. If I had to guess, I’d say that’s probably just the reaction you have to people when you can’t engage in rational discussion on this topic.
  - hnaccy 8y ago
    How are CS and Engineering studies obviously hostile to women and minorities?
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      It’s not that the courses themselves are hostile, but the industry certainly can be - and that’s going to dissuade people from starting down that path.
    - gowld 8y ago
      Here's an example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-16/google-researcher-accused-of-sexual-harassment-roiling-ai-field https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-16/google-re...
      - AmericanChopper 8y ago
        Ya know Google isn’t a University right? It also has one of the most “progressive” diversity cultures in the valley.

Problem with that is women and minorities are all individual people who make their own decisions about what they want to do in life. What does a funnel look like? Forced degrees? Forced employment?

matthewmacleod 8y ago
Probably just a less obviously-hostile environment would be a good start.
- AmericanChopper 8y ago
  What exactly is obviously hostile about our universities? Is it the safe spaces? Is it the lower standards applied to minorities and women to make it easier to get in? Is it all of the scholarships open only to minorities and women? Universities are quite obviously the most inclusive and least hostile place in the world for minorities and women.
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    Yeah, talking about the industry generally. I see you already have your “safe spaces” straw man all set up so I think I’ll just leave you to it.
    - AmericanChopper 8y ago
      It’s not a straw man at all, it’s an accurate description of acedemia. Now you’re saying it’s the industry’s fault (never mind that the industry generally practices the same affirmative action as universities do). But that can’t possibly be the case because the industry doesn’t have enough female and minority stem graduates to hire “enough” women and minorities.
  - wnissen 8y ago
    The percentage of all PhDs earned by women has just, in the last ten years, hit 50%. Of the STEM fields only biology has over 50%, and engineering, physics, and math are in the 20s. A lot of strides have been made, but "most inclusive and least hostile" is not born out by the data. https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/fraction-phd.cfm https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/fraction-p...
    - AmericanChopper 8y ago
      You’re aware this is circular reasoning right? >Why aren’t there more women studying stem? Because University is a hostile environment. >How do you know that? Because there aren’t more women studying stem.
  - groby_b 8y ago
    Assuming you even have a degree: People like you. People who parrot the same sound bites you do. That's what is making our universities hostile.
    - AmericanChopper 8y ago
      You know this isn’t a rational argument at all right? You’re literally defending a baseless assertion with “no, you!”.
      - Latteland 8y ago
        You do come across as having a negative attitude toward women and minorities because you are saying they only got in because someone let them in, they are expected to be lesser.
        AmericanChopper 8y ago
        I’m not saying that at all. But that is exactly the message affirmative action sends to applicants. In general they are both sexist and racist, even to those they supposedly benefit. What I said was that even with systemic advantages put in place encouraging women and minorities (excluding Asians of course, because for some reason they don’t count) to join stem courses, they still show a statistically significant preference to do other majors. If you think I have a negative attitude towards any group, it’s not because of anything I’ve said. If I had to guess, I’d say that’s probably just the reaction you have to people when you can’t engage in rational discussion on this topic.
- hnaccy 8y ago
  How are CS and Engineering studies obviously hostile to women and minorities?
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    It’s not that the courses themselves are hostile, but the industry certainly can be - and that’s going to dissuade people from starting down that path.
  - gowld 8y ago
    Here's an example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-16/google-researcher-accused-of-sexual-harassment-roiling-ai-field https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-16/google-re...
    - AmericanChopper 8y ago
      Ya know Google isn’t a University right? It also has one of the most “progressive” diversity cultures in the valley.