5 ms·

The hidden costs in a “no-cost” tablet contract

86 points by danso 8y ago

rustcharm 8y ago
I'd bet that someone in either the legislature or the prison system is getting some "consideration" from the providers of these "free" tablets. Nobody would agree to allow these things otherwise. I don't think Assemblyman Steve Hawley (R) is being stupid when he's asking "why can't we get "free" tablets for students, too?" I think he's in on it. That's the simplest answer.
- hapless 8y ago
  Given that this is Albany we are talking about, you know with certainty that someone is receiving "consideration." Probably _several_ someones. Steve Hawley probably didn't get his beak wet, and it annoys him. Which is why he dares to ask any questions at all.
- gowld 8y ago
  What's corrupt about asking for children to be treated as well as prisoners, or to sarcastically argue by contradiction? Anyway, you could reread the article to remind yourself that the question in the headline is answered in the article. The tablets are subsidized by software and services offered through the device, like an Amazon Fire. (But the services are terrible.) This is simply a case of a private company shifting costs from the government budget to oppressed and exploited citizens. No "personal" corruption is necessary to explain the situation.
gnusci 8y ago
I may seem that this is a trivial conclusion for many of us that take sometime to understand technology. However, this is actually a well tuned selling strategy that get most of the people around the world hooked-up to several paid services with money or they private information: https://hbr.org/2008/04/the-four-things-a-service-business-must-get-right https://hbr.org/2008/04/the-four-things-a-service-business-m... This is the main reason why large free service companies have products to sell, and then people who understand do not usually like.
UncleEntity 8y ago
Do the inmates have to use the "free" tablets? What I mean is is there some service that they only have available via the tablets and not some other means? Paper letter vs email, video chat vs in person visit, &etc...
- tylerhou 8y ago
  Yes, according to the article, for prison banking and refunds. The services you mentioned are okay, but having a state-approved monopoly over essential services is not okay.
- duskwuff 8y ago
  > Do the inmates have to use the "free" tablets? More or less, yes. Services like JPay are frequently used in the prison system to replace existing systems, not just to supplant them. It may be made the only way to deposit money into the prison commissary, for instance. Or the availability of video chat through JPay may be used as an excuse to limit the availability of in-person visits. And so on.
  - ngoel36 8y ago
    Supplant = replace :)
- danso 8y ago
  I've linked to it elsewhere in this thread (as a response to someone who appears to be ignorant that prison services are an industry), but here's a YC announcement for Pigeon.ly, a YC15 batch that "is building a profitable new category of services for the 20M ppl with family in prison": https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-focused-on-serving-the-us-prison-population-joins-y-combinator/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-... https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/pigeon-ly/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/pigeon-ly/ Pigeon.ly's creator is an ex-convict who served 4 years of prison time for marijuana business. His first-hand experiences with the cost of telecommunication services is apparently what sparked his startup idea: > One of these ideas was a way to make prison calls cheaper. There are only a couple of companies that handle the vast majority of communications in and out of prisons because messages and letters need to be carefully screened. Because of this market concentration among players like Securus and JPay, it means that prisoners — who are already vulnerable and often lower-income — get gouged. > Three hundred minutes can cost $70. > “While I was there, my eyes really started opening up. I started noticing how grossly inefficient everything was,” he said. “I thought, I know I can solve this problem. This is a real market.”
mmirate 8y ago
How can this article possibly be relevant to a non-negligible number of HN readers? (unless criminal-grade risk-affinity is more widespread than I thought?) I mean, sure, good on JPay; but the interesting details are mostly absent. EDIT: I don't know what you people are thinking, but I'm not trolling. These are sincerely my beliefs.
- saurik 8y ago
  This is about the intersection of tech companies with morality and legislation. How can this article possibly not be relevant to a non-negligible number of HN readers? This is like claiming an article about Facebook providing Facebook-only Internet to some rural location in Africa is only relevant if a non-negligible number of people live in that specific place in Africa :/.
  - mmirate 8y ago
    > with morality Wait, we actually care about people who are stupid, desperate or boneheaded enough to commit crimes? Yawn. Wake me up when this is Weimar Germany, and not only in the eyes of the hysterical. ... And an article about Facebook providing Facebook-only Internet to some rural location in Africa is indeed only relevant if a non-negligible number of people live in that specific place in Africa, because ... why do we we care about some random rural location in Africa? (The likelihood of any kind of interesting technology/mathematics/HN-material being produced there is astronomically low.)
    - danso 8y ago
      HN-material arguably includes Silicon Valley/VC-funded entrepreneurial effort, as success stories tend to spawn competitors or inspiration in other fields. Not sure the origination of JPay, but it competes in the same industry as the HN-seeded Pigeon.ly [0]. That said, I don't understand your metric of measuring a company's potential relevance to HN readers. For any given tech startup, I would think revenues/funding rounds/programmers hired is enough of a relevance metric for the average stereotypical HN-ner. But you think HN-relevance is predicated on what proportion of the said startup's userbase would include the typical HN user? [0] https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-focused-on-serving-the-us-prison-population-joins-y-combinator/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-...
scarface74 8y ago
What could possibly go wrong? “Inmates hacked prison tablets to steal $225,000 for apps and music” https://www.slashgear.com/inmates-hacked-prison-tablets-to-steal-225000-for-apps-and-music-27539255/ https://www.slashgear.com/inmates-hacked-prison-tablets-to-s...
- jessaustin 8y ago
  Great link! They caught the inmates who put $1000 directly into their own accounts. If they caught the smarter people, it wasn't mentioned...
  - rebuilder 8y ago
    Well, they caught someone. Possibly the actual culprits, but maybe not. Outside of prison, there are mules who agree to, under pressure or otherwise, receive stolen funds, knowing (probably) that they'll be caught. These are "lifestyle" criminals and addicts for whom being in prison is just a fact of life, or people who have found themselves in debt to e.g. organized crime.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  And by "for apps and music" you mean "allowing each of the implicated inmates to video chat with loved ones for a day and a half, costing the company virtually nothing."
- ryanlol 8y ago
  The only “wrong” thing there seems to be that these guys got caught. JPay and the people behind it deserve to burn.

86 points by danso 8y ago

I'd bet that someone in either the legislature or the prison system is getting some "consideration" from the providers of these "free" tablets. Nobody would agree to allow these things otherwise. I don't think Assemblyman Steve Hawley (R) is being stupid when he's asking "why can't we get "free" tablets for students, too?" I think he's in on it. That's the simplest answer.

hapless 8y ago
Given that this is Albany we are talking about, you know with certainty that someone is receiving "consideration." Probably _several_ someones. Steve Hawley probably didn't get his beak wet, and it annoys him. Which is why he dares to ask any questions at all.
gowld 8y ago
What's corrupt about asking for children to be treated as well as prisoners, or to sarcastically argue by contradiction? Anyway, you could reread the article to remind yourself that the question in the headline is answered in the article. The tablets are subsidized by software and services offered through the device, like an Amazon Fire. (But the services are terrible.) This is simply a case of a private company shifting costs from the government budget to oppressed and exploited citizens. No "personal" corruption is necessary to explain the situation.

gnusci 8y ago

I may seem that this is a trivial conclusion for many of us that take sometime to understand technology. However, this is actually a well tuned selling strategy that get most of the people around the world hooked-up to several paid services with money or they private information: https://hbr.org/2008/04/the-four-things-a-service-business-must-get-right https://hbr.org/2008/04/the-four-things-a-service-business-m... This is the main reason why large free service companies have products to sell, and then people who understand do not usually like.

UncleEntity 8y ago

Do the inmates have to use the "free" tablets? What I mean is is there some service that they only have available via the tablets and not some other means? Paper letter vs email, video chat vs in person visit, &etc...

tylerhou 8y ago
Yes, according to the article, for prison banking and refunds. The services you mentioned are okay, but having a state-approved monopoly over essential services is not okay.
duskwuff 8y ago
> Do the inmates have to use the "free" tablets? More or less, yes. Services like JPay are frequently used in the prison system to replace existing systems, not just to supplant them. It may be made the only way to deposit money into the prison commissary, for instance. Or the availability of video chat through JPay may be used as an excuse to limit the availability of in-person visits. And so on.
- ngoel36 8y ago
  Supplant = replace :)
danso 8y ago
I've linked to it elsewhere in this thread (as a response to someone who appears to be ignorant that prison services are an industry), but here's a YC announcement for Pigeon.ly, a YC15 batch that "is building a profitable new category of services for the 20M ppl with family in prison": https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-focused-on-serving-the-us-prison-population-joins-y-combinator/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-... https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/pigeon-ly/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/pigeon-ly/ Pigeon.ly's creator is an ex-convict who served 4 years of prison time for marijuana business. His first-hand experiences with the cost of telecommunication services is apparently what sparked his startup idea: > One of these ideas was a way to make prison calls cheaper. There are only a couple of companies that handle the vast majority of communications in and out of prisons because messages and letters need to be carefully screened. Because of this market concentration among players like Securus and JPay, it means that prisoners — who are already vulnerable and often lower-income — get gouged. > Three hundred minutes can cost $70. > “While I was there, my eyes really started opening up. I started noticing how grossly inefficient everything was,” he said. “I thought, I know I can solve this problem. This is a real market.”

mmirate 8y ago

How can this article possibly be relevant to a non-negligible number of HN readers? (unless criminal-grade risk-affinity is more widespread than I thought?) I mean, sure, good on JPay; but the interesting details are mostly absent. EDIT: I don't know what you people are thinking, but I'm not trolling. These are sincerely my beliefs.

saurik 8y ago
This is about the intersection of tech companies with morality and legislation. How can this article possibly not be relevant to a non-negligible number of HN readers? This is like claiming an article about Facebook providing Facebook-only Internet to some rural location in Africa is only relevant if a non-negligible number of people live in that specific place in Africa :/.
- mmirate 8y ago
  > with morality Wait, we actually care about people who are stupid, desperate or boneheaded enough to commit crimes? Yawn. Wake me up when this is Weimar Germany, and not only in the eyes of the hysterical. ... And an article about Facebook providing Facebook-only Internet to some rural location in Africa is indeed only relevant if a non-negligible number of people live in that specific place in Africa, because ... why do we we care about some random rural location in Africa? (The likelihood of any kind of interesting technology/mathematics/HN-material being produced there is astronomically low.)
  - danso 8y ago
    HN-material arguably includes Silicon Valley/VC-funded entrepreneurial effort, as success stories tend to spawn competitors or inspiration in other fields. Not sure the origination of JPay, but it competes in the same industry as the HN-seeded Pigeon.ly [0]. That said, I don't understand your metric of measuring a company's potential relevance to HN readers. For any given tech startup, I would think revenues/funding rounds/programmers hired is enough of a relevance metric for the average stereotypical HN-ner. But you think HN-relevance is predicated on what proportion of the said startup's userbase would include the typical HN user? [0] https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-focused-on-serving-the-us-prison-population-joins-y-combinator/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-...

scarface74 8y ago

What could possibly go wrong? “Inmates hacked prison tablets to steal $225,000 for apps and music” https://www.slashgear.com/inmates-hacked-prison-tablets-to-steal-225000-for-apps-and-music-27539255/ https://www.slashgear.com/inmates-hacked-prison-tablets-to-s...

jessaustin 8y ago
Great link! They caught the inmates who put $1000 directly into their own accounts. If they caught the smarter people, it wasn't mentioned...
- rebuilder 8y ago
  Well, they caught someone. Possibly the actual culprits, but maybe not. Outside of prison, there are mules who agree to, under pressure or otherwise, receive stolen funds, knowing (probably) that they'll be caught. These are "lifestyle" criminals and addicts for whom being in prison is just a fact of life, or people who have found themselves in debt to e.g. organized crime.
boomboomsubban 8y ago
And by "for apps and music" you mean "allowing each of the implicated inmates to video chat with loved ones for a day and a half, costing the company virtually nothing."
ryanlol 8y ago
The only “wrong” thing there seems to be that these guys got caught. JPay and the people behind it deserve to burn.