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Citrine (https://citrine-lang.org/ https://citrine-lang.org/ I am the author) tried to change this with respect to coding (it is a programming language that all

Citrine (https://citrine-lang.org/ https://citrine-lang.org/ I am the author) tried to change this with respect to coding (it is a programming language that allows everyone to code in their own language and translate between parties). However, it has been ignored, ridiculed and hated (even death threats). So it has failed and I realize that (I continue to finish it until 0.9 though, because I cant stop in the middle - I am a very neurotic person). It's hard for me. I feel hatred but I realize it just wasnt meant to be (but for some reason if something like this happens and you read an article like this the hate burns...). There is probably not even a way to save European languages anyway. So I just wanted to share this comment to let you know I was working on a technology that at least for coding tried to counter the influence of the English language and allows people to write code in their own language. However I also wrote this comment because I am very emotional because of the failure of this project. When I read an article like this - it's just ...unspeakable. Maybe I was too arrogant. Maybe the problem is too difficult. Maybe I interefered with some globalist agenda, maybe it's just Don Quixottish. Who knows? Anyway I had to share this train of thought. Maybe people just deserve to have their language (and culture) taken from them. Maybe it's just the way it is.

albertgoeswoof 8y ago
Death threats? Sorry to hear that. The project looks awesome! European languages won’t die just because English is around, there are millions of people in Europe that don’t interact on a national or international scale, and are quite happy to continue with their language as it stands, that won’t change for a long time. I think your project is a really great idea! Code often doesn’t translate well when variable and object names are poorly suggested due to translation issues, and there must be billions of lines of code that are limited to specific languages, which are locked out to non-speakers. Can I suggest you focus more on the language benefits on the home page? Did you think about applying this technique as a transpiler to an existing programming language instead of a new language?
ricankng787 8y ago
I'd argue almost no one is having their language and culture taken from them (that was certainly the case in other times in history, but I find it difficult to find one today). There's nothing stopping you from learning another language, or using another language 50-70% of the time. This is a completely transactional phenomenon. You want to communicate with more people, and be understood in almost any part of the world, and possibly make more money doing just about any job? Speak English. Also, I notice the web page to your project is written in English, I imagine it was done for mass appeal right? That's kind of the point.
- xvector 8y ago
  Not OP, but from the web page: > If Citrine respects all languages, why is this website in English? > As a developer, entrepeneur or scientist, you need to be able to read English texts. Citrine does not try to change that. However writing complex programs in a foreign language is a different story. The Citrine project aims to reduce the number of mistakes in software by allowing everyone the language they know best. The manuals will still be mainly in English although translations in other languages may appear in the future or maybe summaries. The Citrine project also encourages ambassadors to host language specific implementations of Citrine along with translated manuals.
xvector 8y ago
Your language is super cool. This is a very noble cause.
type0 8y ago
Interesting language, made me dive in on this Wikipedia rabbit hole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages#Based_on_non-English_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_...
l9k 8y ago
Not exactly programming, but Excel functions are translated in the local language
- laurentl 8y ago
  Which is a right pain, as excel formulas written in say the French version of excel can’t be interpreted by the English version
hitekker 8y ago
Is English your first language?
- gabordemooij 8y ago
  No, I'm Dutch. Our language has been affected deeply by English. People even make a lot of spelling mistakes because of English. For instance, our government building has a spelling mistake in the sign of their main building, it reads: 'Hoofd Gebouw' but this is wrong in Dutch, because it must be 'Hoofdgebouw' (without the space, but in English you write it as 2 words instead of one). People don't know a lot of Dutch equivalents for English words either, they use 'body text' instead of 'broodtekst' and 'database' instead of 'databank'. Code bases are a complete nightmare because managers 'want English as the main language' but we lack the English words for lots of (financial) Dutch concepts. A lot Dutch people think they are really good in English, but we really aren't (sometimes native English speakers beg us to not try and speak English but use Dutch instead so they at least understand what is being said given their limited knowledge of the Dutch language). Our limited knowledge of English leads to a lot of confusing code as well (i.e. they use the word 'childs' instead of 'children' in code that deals with tree structures). Also a lot of database names and tables are full of 'poor English' (user_project instead of 'participant') -- maybe due to a limited vocabulary (trying to describe a word with multiple words etc). There are many more examples. These are just my experiences. edit: Due to the fact that English is not my native language my statements may sometimes a bit more rude than I intent. Sorry for that. edit: Tried to clarify text, add some nuance.
  - lawlorino 8y ago
    > A lot Dutch people think they are really good in English, but we really aren't (sometimes native English speakers beg us to not try and speak English but use Dutch instead so they at least understand what is being said given their limited knowledge of the Dutch language). As a native English speaker living in NL I'm really curious about this, could you describe a situation? The few Dutch people I work with have outstanding levels of English, although being at a company where ~90% of people in my department are non-Dutch, so English is widely spoken, my observation is clearly very biased. Plus I live in Amsterdam which I hear is very different from the rest of the country in this respect.
vorg 8y ago
> it has been ignored, ridiculed and hated (even death threats) [...] Maybe I interefered with some globalist agenda This is the most likely reason, though they will disguise it by using people with other agendas against you as their useful idiot intermediaries.
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't post ideological battle comments to HN.
  - gabordemooij 8y ago
    Unless they are left of course. /cynismoff
j-pb 8y ago
If anything your project would help the gobalist agenda... I've seen so many companies dismantle their dev teams and outsource the coding to cheap labour in brasil. My guess is such a system, no matter how noble the idea behind its creation, would only lead to management finding the cheapest bloke anywhere on the planet to write their code. Some team at the end of the world who don't even speak english and barely enough $lang to code themselves out of a situation if their lives depend on it. And corporate will be like "hey they are shit but they're the cheapest! and because our code is language and coder independent we can always move to the next emerging country once the current folks demands a pay raise! evil laugh"

albertgoeswoof 8y ago

Death threats? Sorry to hear that. The project looks awesome! European languages won’t die just because English is around, there are millions of people in Europe that don’t interact on a national or international scale, and are quite happy to continue with their language as it stands, that won’t change for a long time. I think your project is a really great idea! Code often doesn’t translate well when variable and object names are poorly suggested due to translation issues, and there must be billions of lines of code that are limited to specific languages, which are locked out to non-speakers. Can I suggest you focus more on the language benefits on the home page? Did you think about applying this technique as a transpiler to an existing programming language instead of a new language?

ricankng787 8y ago

I'd argue almost no one is having their language and culture taken from them (that was certainly the case in other times in history, but I find it difficult to find one today). There's nothing stopping you from learning another language, or using another language 50-70% of the time. This is a completely transactional phenomenon. You want to communicate with more people, and be understood in almost any part of the world, and possibly make more money doing just about any job? Speak English. Also, I notice the web page to your project is written in English, I imagine it was done for mass appeal right? That's kind of the point.

xvector 8y ago
Not OP, but from the web page: > If Citrine respects all languages, why is this website in English? > As a developer, entrepeneur or scientist, you need to be able to read English texts. Citrine does not try to change that. However writing complex programs in a foreign language is a different story. The Citrine project aims to reduce the number of mistakes in software by allowing everyone the language they know best. The manuals will still be mainly in English although translations in other languages may appear in the future or maybe summaries. The Citrine project also encourages ambassadors to host language specific implementations of Citrine along with translated manuals.

xvector 8y ago

Your language is super cool. This is a very noble cause.

type0 8y ago

Interesting language, made me dive in on this Wikipedia rabbit hole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages#Based_on_non-English_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_...

l9k 8y ago

Not exactly programming, but Excel functions are translated in the local language

laurentl 8y ago
Which is a right pain, as excel formulas written in say the French version of excel can’t be interpreted by the English version

hitekker 8y ago

Is English your first language?

gabordemooij 8y ago
No, I'm Dutch. Our language has been affected deeply by English. People even make a lot of spelling mistakes because of English. For instance, our government building has a spelling mistake in the sign of their main building, it reads: 'Hoofd Gebouw' but this is wrong in Dutch, because it must be 'Hoofdgebouw' (without the space, but in English you write it as 2 words instead of one). People don't know a lot of Dutch equivalents for English words either, they use 'body text' instead of 'broodtekst' and 'database' instead of 'databank'. Code bases are a complete nightmare because managers 'want English as the main language' but we lack the English words for lots of (financial) Dutch concepts. A lot Dutch people think they are really good in English, but we really aren't (sometimes native English speakers beg us to not try and speak English but use Dutch instead so they at least understand what is being said given their limited knowledge of the Dutch language). Our limited knowledge of English leads to a lot of confusing code as well (i.e. they use the word 'childs' instead of 'children' in code that deals with tree structures). Also a lot of database names and tables are full of 'poor English' (user_project instead of 'participant') -- maybe due to a limited vocabulary (trying to describe a word with multiple words etc). There are many more examples. These are just my experiences. edit: Due to the fact that English is not my native language my statements may sometimes a bit more rude than I intent. Sorry for that. edit: Tried to clarify text, add some nuance.
- lawlorino 8y ago
  > A lot Dutch people think they are really good in English, but we really aren't (sometimes native English speakers beg us to not try and speak English but use Dutch instead so they at least understand what is being said given their limited knowledge of the Dutch language). As a native English speaker living in NL I'm really curious about this, could you describe a situation? The few Dutch people I work with have outstanding levels of English, although being at a company where ~90% of people in my department are non-Dutch, so English is widely spoken, my observation is clearly very biased. Plus I live in Amsterdam which I hear is very different from the rest of the country in this respect.

vorg 8y ago

> it has been ignored, ridiculed and hated (even death threats) [...] Maybe I interefered with some globalist agenda This is the most likely reason, though they will disguise it by using people with other agendas against you as their useful idiot intermediaries.

dang 8y ago
Please don't post ideological battle comments to HN.
- gabordemooij 8y ago
  Unless they are left of course. /cynismoff

j-pb 8y ago

If anything your project would help the gobalist agenda... I've seen so many companies dismantle their dev teams and outsource the coding to cheap labour in brasil. My guess is such a system, no matter how noble the idea behind its creation, would only lead to management finding the cheapest bloke anywhere on the planet to write their code. Some team at the end of the world who don't even speak english and barely enough $lang to code themselves out of a situation if their lives depend on it. And corporate will be like "hey they are shit but they're the cheapest! and because our code is language and coder independent we can always move to the next emerging country once the current folks demands a pay raise! evil laugh"