4 ms·

Some technological progress is good and some of it bad.

by frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago

TomMarius 8y ago
No technological progress is bad. Sometimes this progress is used badly, but knowledge is definitely not bad.
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
  You can't separate a technology from it's use. Technology is created to be used. Besides I could just as easily say some knowledge is good and some knowledge is bad. If you want to say that "knowledge is definitely not bad" then I'm going to ask you your own question - can you support that statement?
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    > You can't separate a technology from it's use. Technology is created to be used. False. Every day, dozens of thousands of people in academia engage in basic research (actual term), something that does not lead to "usable technology" most of the time. > some knowledge is good and some knowledge is bad Are you saying that guns kill people? I thought that people kill people, using guns.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
      >Are you saying that guns kill people? I thought that people kill people, using guns. I don't understand why you're resorting to metaphor, I think what I said was pretty clear. Can you support the statement that all knowledge is good?
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        So our knowledge about guns is bad because guns kill? I can't explain it more, sorry. I think the explanation I've given is very obvious - technology can be used badly, but it's always the people who do it, not the technology itself. Technology is neutral, you can simply not use it - knowing it still might prove important for development of other technologies, e.g. for prevention, reparation, ... after the original technology is used, in case of nuclear weapons for example (how would we know how to prevent and treat radiation illness without knowing anything about nuclear physics), and at the very extreme, the technology itself will do nothing - until people start using it. People are bad, not technology.
- eftychis 8y ago
  Well, I disagree. Partial knowledge and technology can be bad and extremely dangerous. In the 19th- early 20th century they were treating radioactive substances like they were chew toys (making toys etc). The worst nuclear accident happened near lake Karachay, because they had the technology to create nuclear weapons, but did not understand, or knew the danger and how to manage the waste. (Russians were trying to catch up and create their own arsenal, had acquired fragmented knowledge that were piecing together.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Karachay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Karachay https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jul/20/graveyard-earth-inside-city-40-ozersk-russia-deadly-secret-nuclear https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jul/20/graveyard-ear...
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    I'm not sure I understand you. You're saying that we will solve lack of knowledge with stopping the pursuit of knowledge?
    - eftychis 8y ago
      No. My argument is kind of the opposite. I am here countering the point that gaining knowledge is a monotonous function with respect to "goodness"/value. We need to be cautious and acknowledge our lack of knowledge, when we move ahead.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        I fully agree with you, of course. That doesn't mean the technology is bad, though - it's just that people are too cocky and think they know everything. Knowledge can't be bad nor good, people and their use of knowledge are.

Some technological progress is good and some of it bad.

TomMarius 8y ago

No technological progress is bad. Sometimes this progress is used badly, but knowledge is definitely not bad.

frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
You can't separate a technology from it's use. Technology is created to be used. Besides I could just as easily say some knowledge is good and some knowledge is bad. If you want to say that "knowledge is definitely not bad" then I'm going to ask you your own question - can you support that statement?
- TomMarius 8y ago
  > You can't separate a technology from it's use. Technology is created to be used. False. Every day, dozens of thousands of people in academia engage in basic research (actual term), something that does not lead to "usable technology" most of the time. > some knowledge is good and some knowledge is bad Are you saying that guns kill people? I thought that people kill people, using guns.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
    >Are you saying that guns kill people? I thought that people kill people, using guns. I don't understand why you're resorting to metaphor, I think what I said was pretty clear. Can you support the statement that all knowledge is good?
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      So our knowledge about guns is bad because guns kill? I can't explain it more, sorry. I think the explanation I've given is very obvious - technology can be used badly, but it's always the people who do it, not the technology itself. Technology is neutral, you can simply not use it - knowing it still might prove important for development of other technologies, e.g. for prevention, reparation, ... after the original technology is used, in case of nuclear weapons for example (how would we know how to prevent and treat radiation illness without knowing anything about nuclear physics), and at the very extreme, the technology itself will do nothing - until people start using it. People are bad, not technology.
eftychis 8y ago
Well, I disagree. Partial knowledge and technology can be bad and extremely dangerous. In the 19th- early 20th century they were treating radioactive substances like they were chew toys (making toys etc). The worst nuclear accident happened near lake Karachay, because they had the technology to create nuclear weapons, but did not understand, or knew the danger and how to manage the waste. (Russians were trying to catch up and create their own arsenal, had acquired fragmented knowledge that were piecing together.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Karachay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Karachay https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jul/20/graveyard-earth-inside-city-40-ozersk-russia-deadly-secret-nuclear https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jul/20/graveyard-ear...
- TomMarius 8y ago
  I'm not sure I understand you. You're saying that we will solve lack of knowledge with stopping the pursuit of knowledge?
  - eftychis 8y ago
    No. My argument is kind of the opposite. I am here countering the point that gaining knowledge is a monotonous function with respect to "goodness"/value. We need to be cautious and acknowledge our lack of knowledge, when we move ahead.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      I fully agree with you, of course. That doesn't mean the technology is bad, though - it's just that people are too cocky and think they know everything. Knowledge can't be bad nor good, people and their use of knowledge are.