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> having a sense of civic duty and community vs. not A sense of civic duty? These words sounds like they are from another period. I think this is low in the

by dm319 8y ago

> having a sense of civic duty and community vs. not A sense of civic duty? These words sounds like they are from another period. I think this is low in the mindshare of the population of many western countries. As a society we're mostly concerned with personal progress, social influence and monetisation.

metanoia 8y ago
And this is the essential problem with society today - the lack of acknowledgement that there is such a thing as civic duty, or the greater good. It's all about personal advancement regardless of the externalized costs. In the words of Toby Keith - It's all about me, it's all about I, it's all about #1...
- woah 8y ago
  Also, the kids these days wear funny clothes, their music is too loud, and they have no manners. We’re really going to hell in a handbasket. Also the JavaScript frameworks have too many plugins.
  - rnd0 8y ago
    Kids today? "“I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. " Margaret Thatcher, 1987
jagipson 8y ago
And this is why the West is in decline. Modern society is based on the specialization of its individuals to perform tasks more efficiently and that in doing so, society as a hole benefits from this.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Community died some time in the 1980s with the rise of "loads of money", and famous politicians stating "there's no such thing as society any more". It used to be that people would make a living then give something back in later life - either public service such as becoming a politician or joining one of the many societies like the Rotary Club that performs philanthropic acts. Now politics is a career, philanthropy is the preserve of the astonishingly wealthy and everyone cares about nothing but self, making a buck and what they can get. We lost a huge amount in that process. I sincerely hope we see it rise again sometime soon.
- eucitizenxxy 8y ago
  People get shadowbanned on HN for using the the term that describes this phenomenon: neoliberalism. It’s exactly that: eroding of civil society while pushing the ideology that you can (and should) monetize everything. A sad development might I say.
  - krapp 8y ago
    >People get shadowbanned on HN for using the the term that describes this phenomenon: neoliberalism. Nobody gets shadowbanned on HN for using the term neoliberalism[0]. I'm going to guess from the age of your account that you had a former account which was banned, and I would bet money that using the word "neoliberalism" was not the cause of it. [0]https://hn.algolia.com/?query=neoliberalism https://hn.algolia.com/?query=neoliberalism
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    That's not really neoliberalism, moreover, nobody is getting banned for that word. Neoliberalism is more of an academic, economic concept, it's not inherently anti-community, it just happens to be. McDonald's and Starbucks don't want to wipe out civic cohesiveness etc., but it just might happen in some situations wherein everyone ends up working for 'large corps' instead of local businesses etc.. The opposite political ideology is called 'Communitarianism'. It does not have a current identifiable place in America politics. The Christian Democrats (i.e. Angela Merkel in Germany) are of this philosophy, it's more of a culturally conservative kind of socialism, it puts families, communities, people and the wellbeing of said groups at the centre of political and economic objectives. It's done in a localist manner (in the same way the Catholic Church has given great local leeway to parishes etc.), i.e. local context matters more than top-down authorities etc.. Whether you buy into it or not, I suggest it's really sad that it's missing from the American dialogue because a lot of that is just what we need right now. Inherently localist ideals have a hard fight against more globalist ones (neoliberalism, state socialism) for obvious reasons ... if there were more established Communitarian ideals, I'll bet Donald Trump would not be president right now.
extralego 8y ago
For me, it’s everything I dream of and yearn for. I will work for it until the day i die whether you join me or not. We have built a trash pile and treat each accordingly. Libraries are little pieces of harmony. When they close, I will go with them.

by dm319 8y ago

metanoia 8y ago

And this is the essential problem with society today - the lack of acknowledgement that there is such a thing as civic duty, or the greater good. It's all about personal advancement regardless of the externalized costs. In the words of Toby Keith - It's all about me, it's all about I, it's all about #1...

woah 8y ago
Also, the kids these days wear funny clothes, their music is too loud, and they have no manners. We’re really going to hell in a handbasket. Also the JavaScript frameworks have too many plugins.
- rnd0 8y ago
  Kids today? "“I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. " Margaret Thatcher, 1987

jagipson 8y ago

And this is why the West is in decline. Modern society is based on the specialization of its individuals to perform tasks more efficiently and that in doing so, society as a hole benefits from this.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

Community died some time in the 1980s with the rise of "loads of money", and famous politicians stating "there's no such thing as society any more". It used to be that people would make a living then give something back in later life - either public service such as becoming a politician or joining one of the many societies like the Rotary Club that performs philanthropic acts. Now politics is a career, philanthropy is the preserve of the astonishingly wealthy and everyone cares about nothing but self, making a buck and what they can get. We lost a huge amount in that process. I sincerely hope we see it rise again sometime soon.

eucitizenxxy 8y ago
People get shadowbanned on HN for using the the term that describes this phenomenon: neoliberalism. It’s exactly that: eroding of civil society while pushing the ideology that you can (and should) monetize everything. A sad development might I say.
- krapp 8y ago
  >People get shadowbanned on HN for using the the term that describes this phenomenon: neoliberalism. Nobody gets shadowbanned on HN for using the term neoliberalism[0]. I'm going to guess from the age of your account that you had a former account which was banned, and I would bet money that using the word "neoliberalism" was not the cause of it. [0]https://hn.algolia.com/?query=neoliberalism https://hn.algolia.com/?query=neoliberalism
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  That's not really neoliberalism, moreover, nobody is getting banned for that word. Neoliberalism is more of an academic, economic concept, it's not inherently anti-community, it just happens to be. McDonald's and Starbucks don't want to wipe out civic cohesiveness etc., but it just might happen in some situations wherein everyone ends up working for 'large corps' instead of local businesses etc.. The opposite political ideology is called 'Communitarianism'. It does not have a current identifiable place in America politics. The Christian Democrats (i.e. Angela Merkel in Germany) are of this philosophy, it's more of a culturally conservative kind of socialism, it puts families, communities, people and the wellbeing of said groups at the centre of political and economic objectives. It's done in a localist manner (in the same way the Catholic Church has given great local leeway to parishes etc.), i.e. local context matters more than top-down authorities etc.. Whether you buy into it or not, I suggest it's really sad that it's missing from the American dialogue because a lot of that is just what we need right now. Inherently localist ideals have a hard fight against more globalist ones (neoliberalism, state socialism) for obvious reasons ... if there were more established Communitarian ideals, I'll bet Donald Trump would not be president right now.

extralego 8y ago

For me, it’s everything I dream of and yearn for. I will work for it until the day i die whether you join me or not. We have built a trash pile and treat each accordingly. Libraries are little pieces of harmony. When they close, I will go with them.