4 ms·

The author interviewed several experts who claimed he wasn't beaten including people who examined him in person. Sorry this article is critical of your dear lea

• throwaway78568 8y ago
  He never explains the misaligned teeth. They seem to agree that the teeth are "healthy" but also that they were previously straight, and are no longer straight. A little odd, don't you think?
  • badbug 8y ago
    The only person claiming that is the family. "Natural and in good repair" from the American doctor. The family also refused an autopsy. Weird right?
    • throwaway78568 8y ago
      Cool man, so you know exactly what happened for that whole time period while he was in NK? He was there for over two years. No way he was beaten at any point, right? No way they tortured him? The amount of cognitive dissonance it takes to defend North Korea is staggering. To each his own I guess.
      • badbug 8y ago
        Never claimed that I knew and no where in any of my posts have I defended north korea. I'm putting more weight on objective observers. People with scientific backgrounds. You are putting weight on grieving parents who refused an autopsy and a notorious liar.
      • tptacek 8y ago
        There's no evidence of physical torture. No fractures, no visible injuries, symmetrical damage in brain scans suggesting no direct trauma to his head, no apparent damage to his teeth, the much-discussed scar on his foot was superficial, and overt evidence of careful medical care (no bedsores, well nourished, things that are hard to do even in US hospitals). Whether you want Warmbier to have been physically tortured or not, the evidence of his torture is not present. Which is important, because it contradicts the media story about Warmbier's experience.
        • 6CLfK93jQ8 8y ago
          There is no direct evidence of his torture, nor of his lack of torture by other forms. Why did North Korea say that his brain damage was caused by botulism and a bad reaction to a sleeping pill? Otto's doctors said it was most likely cardiopulmonary arrest. His doctor's said we will never know what happened to him exactly but something nefarious seems likely given North Korea's history, and the lies about the cause of brain death. Not to mention, it's easy to envision forms of torture that might cause a cardiopulmonary event(waterboarding, drowning, suffocation, etc). To me it's really surprising that an omission of correcting the perception that Otto was beaten on the part of the Trump administration is evidence Trump used the situation or that North Korea did not violate any of Otto's human rights.
          • tptacek 8y ago
            You're trying to rebut an argument nobody made. Nobody is saying that the DPRK is trustworthy or that their story about Warmbier is accurate; in fact, the article itself throws that story into question, because according to the timeline it establishes, Warmbier's injury occurred almost immediately after his sentencing. You don't get to make up elaborate torture scenarios and then use them to rebut the article. The point that the article is making is simple: the story spread throughout the media about what happened to Otto Warmbier does not align with discoverable facts. The claim was that he was beaten, so badly that his "teeth were rearranged". That appears not to have been the case. Saddam Hussein was a horrible person, one of the most horrible leaders in the world. The Baathist Iraqi regime was an evil on par with that of North Korea; in some ways perhaps worse. Nevertheless, our adventure in Iraq, based on false intelligence, was perhaps the greatest foreign policy blunder of the last 100 years. Nobody can pretend that discrepancies in stories about the crimes of American enemies don't have particular valence today. This is important reporting. You'll have to do better than just making up stories in message board comments to tear it down.
            • b22GcijhI9 8y ago
              I might not have been clear then. The story is implying the Trump administration used the "beatings" story line to his advantage despite not having really made that claim. It appears that the media reported it from intelligence sources. It faults him, and even accuses him of exploiting the situation, for not correcting the story line which is an outrageous standard to hold presidents accountable to. My further but more convoluted point is it isn't unreasonable to speculate that some form of torture that is not beatings caused the injury. ok? I see your point about Iraq and the importance of story lines. Yes, I am hiding my name.
  • tptacek 8y ago
    The article cites an American doctor that inspected those teeth and said they were in fine repair.