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Why should the city buy them back? They sold the assets, they have no obligation to re-purchase them. Investment risk is in the hands of those people (usually

Why should the city buy them back? They sold the assets, they have no obligation to re-purchase them. Investment risk is in the hands of those people (usually companies) who purchase them. Besides, at what price would they even buy them back at? They're certainly not worth the price that some people pay for them (last I checked, about $1M each).

fcbrooklyn 8y ago
Because the city sold them on the basis that they offered an exclusive right to pick up street hails in manhattan. Uber, et al, have essentially eliminated that exclusivity.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Ubers are black cars. Black cars existed back when the taxi medallions were sold.
  - fcbrooklyn 8y ago
    They sure did. I used to have three numbers of black car services on my phone, and if I couldn't get a cab, which was common in my neighborhood, and I needed a ride badly enough to pay 2-3x what a yellow would cost, I'd call those numbers one by one, until one of 'em had a driver available. If I was in manhattan, I'd pretty much never call a car, because it was easier to street hail a yellow, usually.
robrenaud 8y ago
> Why should the city buy them back So otherwise hopeless drivers/single medallion owners who are severely in debt don't end up committing mass suicide.
- gammateam 8y ago
  the goal is to lower congestion to improve commerce, not address mental health issues.
- bluedevil2k 8y ago
  People who bought million dollar homes and then saw them plunge in value to $300k didn't commit mass suicide, so why would you assume it would happen in this case?
  - Eric_WVGG 8y ago
    Five in the past five months. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/nyregion/taxi-driver-suicide-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/nyregion/taxi-driver-suic...
- ihsw3 8y ago
  We live in a free market, they're free to find work elsewhere. Not only that but these cabbies have the unbelievable fortune of being able to unload these medallions through declaring chapter 7/chapter 13 bankruptcy. There are so many avenues for them to relieve themselves from this burden and better their circumstances that you'd be hard-pressed to take any claims of mass-suicide seriously.
  - vkou 8y ago
    Suppose that your state government embarks on a program of land reform. And suppose that they institute new/raise existing taxes/restrictions, that cause the value of your Silicon Valley home to go from ~2.2m to something reasonable, like ~200k. Most economists are in agreement that dramatically increasing the cost of owning property (And, conversely, lowering the market value of existing properties) is one of the answers to the current housing crisis. Once the rules are changed, the free market can figure things out going forward! Are you going to cheer this process on? It will, after all, greatly improve life for people who don't have millions of dollars to pour into housing.
  - sigstoat 8y ago
    > We live in a free market, they're free to find work elsewhere. except taxis aren't currently a free market, and definitely weren't when many of those medallions were originally purchased. the government shouldn't have been mucking with the market, but it did.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > single medallion owners Most medallions are owned by corporate owners [1]. The drivers work for the medallion owner. The medallion owner collects rent. [1] http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/
  - tooltalk 8y ago
    >CURRENT OWNERSHIP: 17 percent of medallions are owned by cab fleets; 54 percent are owned by leasing agents, who delegate management to fleets; and 29 percent are owned by independent drivers. I think 29%, 12,187 * .29 ~ 3500 cab drivers, is not insignificant numbers. I don't know though anyone who owns their own medallions -- a few I knew worked for a company that leased their medallions and they paid something like $1000 per week.
    - misterprime 8y ago
      The lease comes with the medallion and a car though, right?
- manfredo 8y ago
  Risk is inherent in any investment. If someone put their life savings into Bitcoin while it was at $20k should b they be compensated by the government? A taxi medallion is like any other investment: its price is subject to fluctuation and if someone took that risk of investing in it the consequences are on them.
jdlyga 8y ago
Because Taxi drivers depend on them to make a living and to eventually retire on. It's a big investment.
- bluedevil2k 8y ago
  They don't buy them in cash, they take out a loan to purchase the medallions. They have the option to declare bankruptcy, default on their loan, or if they're from another country, move out of the United States. In any case, it wouldn't make sense to bail out all these medallion owners, because essentially the owners are banks.
- ihsw3 8y ago
  They can take responsibility for their actions like everybody else, and that includes having the advantage that nobody else in the history of debtors has ever had -- the ability to declare bankruptcy and survive with their hide intact.
- mi100hael 8y ago
  How many individual drivers even own medallions? I was under the impression most of the time cab companies own them and drivers take the cars out from a pool.
InitialLastName 8y ago
They sold the medallions based on a guarantee that they would enforce a monopoly around those medallions. Then they didn't enforce that monopoly. Sounds like the city is in the wrong.
- gruez 8y ago
  and what if the city repeals the monopoly? did the city enter into a contract to guarantee that a monopoly will be in place for n years?
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago
  The medallions are only for street hails. Uber does not accept street hails, they just made another way of hiring a car convenient enough to replace a significant portion of street hails. The medallion owners invested in something that became less valuable because of technology (cellphones becoming ubiquitous). They have no one to blame except for themselves.
npongratz 8y ago
Looks like the current asking price for medallions is now considerably less than $1MM: https://nycitycab.com/Business/TaxiMedallionList.aspx https://nycitycab.com/Business/TaxiMedallionList.aspx

fcbrooklyn 8y ago

Because the city sold them on the basis that they offered an exclusive right to pick up street hails in manhattan. Uber, et al, have essentially eliminated that exclusivity.

greglindahl 8y ago
Ubers are black cars. Black cars existed back when the taxi medallions were sold.
- fcbrooklyn 8y ago
  They sure did. I used to have three numbers of black car services on my phone, and if I couldn't get a cab, which was common in my neighborhood, and I needed a ride badly enough to pay 2-3x what a yellow would cost, I'd call those numbers one by one, until one of 'em had a driver available. If I was in manhattan, I'd pretty much never call a car, because it was easier to street hail a yellow, usually.

robrenaud 8y ago

> Why should the city buy them back So otherwise hopeless drivers/single medallion owners who are severely in debt don't end up committing mass suicide.

gammateam 8y ago
the goal is to lower congestion to improve commerce, not address mental health issues.
bluedevil2k 8y ago
People who bought million dollar homes and then saw them plunge in value to $300k didn't commit mass suicide, so why would you assume it would happen in this case?
- Eric_WVGG 8y ago
  Five in the past five months. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/nyregion/taxi-driver-suicide-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/nyregion/taxi-driver-suic...
ihsw3 8y ago
We live in a free market, they're free to find work elsewhere. Not only that but these cabbies have the unbelievable fortune of being able to unload these medallions through declaring chapter 7/chapter 13 bankruptcy. There are so many avenues for them to relieve themselves from this burden and better their circumstances that you'd be hard-pressed to take any claims of mass-suicide seriously.
- vkou 8y ago
  Suppose that your state government embarks on a program of land reform. And suppose that they institute new/raise existing taxes/restrictions, that cause the value of your Silicon Valley home to go from ~2.2m to something reasonable, like ~200k. Most economists are in agreement that dramatically increasing the cost of owning property (And, conversely, lowering the market value of existing properties) is one of the answers to the current housing crisis. Once the rules are changed, the free market can figure things out going forward! Are you going to cheer this process on? It will, after all, greatly improve life for people who don't have millions of dollars to pour into housing.
- sigstoat 8y ago
  > We live in a free market, they're free to find work elsewhere. except taxis aren't currently a free market, and definitely weren't when many of those medallions were originally purchased. the government shouldn't have been mucking with the market, but it did.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> single medallion owners Most medallions are owned by corporate owners [1]. The drivers work for the medallion owner. The medallion owner collects rent. [1] http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/ http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/features/taxi/n_10292/
- tooltalk 8y ago
  >CURRENT OWNERSHIP: 17 percent of medallions are owned by cab fleets; 54 percent are owned by leasing agents, who delegate management to fleets; and 29 percent are owned by independent drivers. I think 29%, 12,187 * .29 ~ 3500 cab drivers, is not insignificant numbers. I don't know though anyone who owns their own medallions -- a few I knew worked for a company that leased their medallions and they paid something like $1000 per week.
  - misterprime 8y ago
    The lease comes with the medallion and a car though, right?
manfredo 8y ago
Risk is inherent in any investment. If someone put their life savings into Bitcoin while it was at $20k should b they be compensated by the government? A taxi medallion is like any other investment: its price is subject to fluctuation and if someone took that risk of investing in it the consequences are on them.

jdlyga 8y ago

Because Taxi drivers depend on them to make a living and to eventually retire on. It's a big investment.

bluedevil2k 8y ago
They don't buy them in cash, they take out a loan to purchase the medallions. They have the option to declare bankruptcy, default on their loan, or if they're from another country, move out of the United States. In any case, it wouldn't make sense to bail out all these medallion owners, because essentially the owners are banks.
ihsw3 8y ago
They can take responsibility for their actions like everybody else, and that includes having the advantage that nobody else in the history of debtors has ever had -- the ability to declare bankruptcy and survive with their hide intact.
mi100hael 8y ago
How many individual drivers even own medallions? I was under the impression most of the time cab companies own them and drivers take the cars out from a pool.

InitialLastName 8y ago

They sold the medallions based on a guarantee that they would enforce a monopoly around those medallions. Then they didn't enforce that monopoly. Sounds like the city is in the wrong.

gruez 8y ago
and what if the city repeals the monopoly? did the city enter into a contract to guarantee that a monopoly will be in place for n years?
TheCoelacanth 8y ago
The medallions are only for street hails. Uber does not accept street hails, they just made another way of hiring a car convenient enough to replace a significant portion of street hails. The medallion owners invested in something that became less valuable because of technology (cellphones becoming ubiquitous). They have no one to blame except for themselves.

npongratz 8y ago

Looks like the current asking price for medallions is now considerably less than $1MM: https://nycitycab.com/Business/TaxiMedallionList.aspx https://nycitycab.com/Business/TaxiMedallionList.aspx