4 ms·

> There is also not a single email client that integrates resource management as well as outlook This is an argument I've never understood. Why do you want you

> There is also not a single email client that integrates resource management as well as outlook This is an argument I've never understood. Why do you want your calendaring mashed together with your mail? I much prefer the macOS model, where mail, calendar and contacts are separate applications. Nothing prevents them to use the same data store, but not having to switch them in modal mode is a big win.

dogma1138 8y ago
Because when you need to juggle multiple meetings across 3 continents and 5 time zones it's much easier to kick everything off in a single email and having full visibility into who is available and when, and then having all of the resources needed for the meeting to be automatically reserved. The latter is especially important when you have different conferencing / dial in systems in different regions that all need to be reserved and tied to the same meeting request. This isn't about having different apps that model has no advantage or a disadvantage the ability to see the presence of people and resources across the entire organization is the big important feature that is not available on other platforms at all or without a momentous amount of work.
- VonGallifrey 8y ago
  > juggle multiple meetings across 3 continents and 5 time zones For some reason I thought that you where still talking about German provincial government. Which was extremely funny for me to imagine since those guys are not even allowed to speak English in official capacity.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Even for them it can make a lot of difference the only thing I need to do to book a room is to forward an email of the invite of the meeting to the booking system and it would book a room for me and setup the conference system to automatically call in that is a convenience that is hard to give up when you don’t have Exchange and AD that have all the user and resource info stored for multiple systems to hook into.
    - close04 8y ago
      Imagine you go to the office canteen and suddenly you get Asian food and chopsticks. But all of you want your traditional, local food served along utensils you want and know how to use. It's not possible anymore because Asian food and chopsticks are a decent and cheaper alternative. Also not allowed to pack lunch. Also you get penalized for not being able to eat fast enough to meet your targets. Also you have to eat that food 8 hours a day, every day, for as long as you stick around. Well... imperfect analogy but I hope the point is clear. :) So it's not just the fact that enterprise support for Linux solutions is flaky at best, that the tools themselves are many times nowhere near as powerful as they need to be, or that there is no coordinated strategy to push Linux in the enterprise where it should be going because the promoters never seem to be interested in having the "end-user" tell them what they want and how they want it. Sometimes it can be a lot simpler: the users don't want it. They don't feel comfortable with it so they won't do a good job with it. This is one of the most common things IT departments all over the world get wrong: instead of enabling their users to do their job better they try to just dictate how to do it with solutions picked in a vacuum. Just pick the right tool for the job and make sure you have the people using the tool to confirm it's right and you're good.
      - vetinari 8y ago
        As someone, who in the past life spent some time gathering requirements for enterprise software: no, most users do not know what they want. You will mostly meed McGregor's type X people, who do not even care. If they tell you something, it is the Car built for Homer. Several of them, each different and mutually exclusive with another, in fact. So your job would be finding those of the few type Y folks and work with them. Even if they are enthusiasts, they still might not see the forest for the trees. Also, that doesn't necessarily mean, that their info you will get you near your objective; you will still have to satisfy many more people, who will not use it, but have their own ideas how it should look and behave, even if it will make life harder to those using it (see also: exactly which programmer wanted open space office?). There is no perfect answer for these problems.
        close04 8y ago
- vetinari 8y ago
  Separate applications do not break that; you can still send that meeting request from the calendar app, or see availability when writing an email. Just because they are separate application does not mean, that they do not operate on the same data. However I appreciate when I can use the full-blown GUI to look at calendars in another window, even when I'm in the middle of composing an email. The modal switcher in Outlook was one the worst thing I've experienced in productivity software.

dogma1138 8y ago

Because when you need to juggle multiple meetings across 3 continents and 5 time zones it's much easier to kick everything off in a single email and having full visibility into who is available and when, and then having all of the resources needed for the meeting to be automatically reserved. The latter is especially important when you have different conferencing / dial in systems in different regions that all need to be reserved and tied to the same meeting request. This isn't about having different apps that model has no advantage or a disadvantage the ability to see the presence of people and resources across the entire organization is the big important feature that is not available on other platforms at all or without a momentous amount of work.

VonGallifrey 8y ago
> juggle multiple meetings across 3 continents and 5 time zones For some reason I thought that you where still talking about German provincial government. Which was extremely funny for me to imagine since those guys are not even allowed to speak English in official capacity.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Even for them it can make a lot of difference the only thing I need to do to book a room is to forward an email of the invite of the meeting to the booking system and it would book a room for me and setup the conference system to automatically call in that is a convenience that is hard to give up when you don’t have Exchange and AD that have all the user and resource info stored for multiple systems to hook into.
  - close04 8y ago
    Imagine you go to the office canteen and suddenly you get Asian food and chopsticks. But all of you want your traditional, local food served along utensils you want and know how to use. It's not possible anymore because Asian food and chopsticks are a decent and cheaper alternative. Also not allowed to pack lunch. Also you get penalized for not being able to eat fast enough to meet your targets. Also you have to eat that food 8 hours a day, every day, for as long as you stick around. Well... imperfect analogy but I hope the point is clear. :) So it's not just the fact that enterprise support for Linux solutions is flaky at best, that the tools themselves are many times nowhere near as powerful as they need to be, or that there is no coordinated strategy to push Linux in the enterprise where it should be going because the promoters never seem to be interested in having the "end-user" tell them what they want and how they want it. Sometimes it can be a lot simpler: the users don't want it. They don't feel comfortable with it so they won't do a good job with it. This is one of the most common things IT departments all over the world get wrong: instead of enabling their users to do their job better they try to just dictate how to do it with solutions picked in a vacuum. Just pick the right tool for the job and make sure you have the people using the tool to confirm it's right and you're good.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      As someone, who in the past life spent some time gathering requirements for enterprise software: no, most users do not know what they want. You will mostly meed McGregor's type X people, who do not even care. If they tell you something, it is the Car built for Homer. Several of them, each different and mutually exclusive with another, in fact. So your job would be finding those of the few type Y folks and work with them. Even if they are enthusiasts, they still might not see the forest for the trees. Also, that doesn't necessarily mean, that their info you will get you near your objective; you will still have to satisfy many more people, who will not use it, but have their own ideas how it should look and behave, even if it will make life harder to those using it (see also: exactly which programmer wanted open space office?). There is no perfect answer for these problems.
      - close04 8y ago
vetinari 8y ago
Separate applications do not break that; you can still send that meeting request from the calendar app, or see availability when writing an email. Just because they are separate application does not mean, that they do not operate on the same data. However I appreciate when I can use the full-blown GUI to look at calendars in another window, even when I'm in the middle of composing an email. The modal switcher in Outlook was one the worst thing I've experienced in productivity software.