4 ms·

For on-prem, why not use a free and enterprise-quality XMPP server, like Openfire[1]? It's Java so runs just about anywhere, and with even relatively low resou

by Alupis 8y ago

For on-prem, why not use a free and enterprise-quality XMPP server, like Openfire[1]? It's Java so runs just about anywhere, and with even relatively low resource allocations, you can support a large number of concurrent chats and group sessions. Plus, since XMPP is an Open Standard, you can use any XMPP complaint client of your choosing. Cisco embeds Openfire in a few of their enterprise products already (including Finesse), so you might have used it without even knowing. The IgniteRealtime community is pretty active and new releases come out regularly[2]. [1] https://www.igniterealtime.org/projects/openfire/ https://www.igniterealtime.org/projects/openfire/ [2] https://www.igniterealtime.org/index.jsp https://www.igniterealtime.org/index.jsp

travbrack 8y ago
The client-side story of XMPP is pretty bleak, especially if you're trying to get non-technical people to use it.
- SamWhited 8y ago
  This is why we need specific services (like Slack or HipChat) that are XMPP but maintain their own ecosystem, clients, specific feature sets, etc. Then if you want to use third party clients (eg. for better accessibility, or because your platform isn't supported officially, etc.) you can, but if not you can use their clients. HipChat was almost this way (I used Mcabber with it extensively), but had just enough bits of the protocol that ignored the XMPP spec or were only accessible through a second non-XMPP channel that it was a bit annoying.
  - travbrack 8y ago
    It's a real shame that the industry has forsaken the protocol in favor of walled gardens.
    - nyconyco 8y ago
      We'll be trying to fix that by offering the XMPP "Team Chat" client that is much needed... https://nayego.net/ https://nayego.net/ you can subscribe if you want to see the preview.
    - jacobsenscott 8y ago
      The reason is open protocols soon become the single biggest blocker to innovation. Open protocols stagnate and ossify. So some competitor with a proprietary system will come along and eat your lunch. That's why there have only been 2 changes in email clients ever - the move from terminal to desktop GUI and desktop GUI to web 2.0 client. That's why XMPP and IRC clients will never compete with slack (queue the 'what does slack have that IRC doesn't have thread').
      - travbrack 8y ago
        I don't think it's as much that the protocol stagnates as much as it is that companies have a strong incentive to get users into their walled garden. If you use an open protocol, you can't lock people in.
- lallysingh 8y ago
  No good web front ends?
- edhelas 8y ago
  Already tried Movim :) https://movim.eu/ https://movim.eu/ ? It's a fully-featured web-based XMPP client. It integrates all the modern XMPP features (message editing, history management, file-sharing, video-conferencing, publications…), it's responsive and easy to use and deploy on a self-hosted instance.
  - arendtio 8y ago
    Btw. I just saw that movin is advertising 'Conversations' (Android) and 'Dino' (Desktop) as alternative clients. While I use Conversations every day and can recommend it too, on the desktop side I would recommend Gajim instead. Over the past years I used 'Pidgin' as my desktop client, but it was not were I wanted it to be so I was actively looking for alternatives. Dino looked very promising on paper (supported XEPs) but they lack basic stuff like systray support (at least the last time I checked it out). For a long time Gajim wasn't any better than Pidgin, but earlier this year they released their version 1.0 which added support for some more XEPs most importantly MAM (enables proper history synchronization between clients). Since that release I switched to Gajim and stopped looking for alternatives ;-)
- nyconyco 8y ago
  We are trying to fix the shameful situation: https://nayego.net/ https://nayego.net/ you can subscribe if you want to see the preview, but it's work in progress.
  - travbrack 8y ago
    Suggestion: Have a tour of the product that doesn't require a signup. If I don't want to give you my email address, I'm left to use my imagination based on your description.
h1d 8y ago
Servers seem solid and there's also ejabberd but what about clients? I want clients that are stable, cross platform and does push notification and last time I checked, there were none. Also, I don't like the fact that it's person based whereas mattermost (and IRC) are group based that also allows person based chat.

by Alupis 8y ago

travbrack 8y ago

The client-side story of XMPP is pretty bleak, especially if you're trying to get non-technical people to use it.

SamWhited 8y ago
This is why we need specific services (like Slack or HipChat) that are XMPP but maintain their own ecosystem, clients, specific feature sets, etc. Then if you want to use third party clients (eg. for better accessibility, or because your platform isn't supported officially, etc.) you can, but if not you can use their clients. HipChat was almost this way (I used Mcabber with it extensively), but had just enough bits of the protocol that ignored the XMPP spec or were only accessible through a second non-XMPP channel that it was a bit annoying.
- travbrack 8y ago
  It's a real shame that the industry has forsaken the protocol in favor of walled gardens.
  - nyconyco 8y ago
    We'll be trying to fix that by offering the XMPP "Team Chat" client that is much needed... https://nayego.net/ https://nayego.net/ you can subscribe if you want to see the preview.
  - jacobsenscott 8y ago
    The reason is open protocols soon become the single biggest blocker to innovation. Open protocols stagnate and ossify. So some competitor with a proprietary system will come along and eat your lunch. That's why there have only been 2 changes in email clients ever - the move from terminal to desktop GUI and desktop GUI to web 2.0 client. That's why XMPP and IRC clients will never compete with slack (queue the 'what does slack have that IRC doesn't have thread').
    - travbrack 8y ago
      I don't think it's as much that the protocol stagnates as much as it is that companies have a strong incentive to get users into their walled garden. If you use an open protocol, you can't lock people in.
lallysingh 8y ago
No good web front ends?
edhelas 8y ago
Already tried Movim :) https://movim.eu/ https://movim.eu/ ? It's a fully-featured web-based XMPP client. It integrates all the modern XMPP features (message editing, history management, file-sharing, video-conferencing, publications…), it's responsive and easy to use and deploy on a self-hosted instance.
- arendtio 8y ago
  Btw. I just saw that movin is advertising 'Conversations' (Android) and 'Dino' (Desktop) as alternative clients. While I use Conversations every day and can recommend it too, on the desktop side I would recommend Gajim instead. Over the past years I used 'Pidgin' as my desktop client, but it was not were I wanted it to be so I was actively looking for alternatives. Dino looked very promising on paper (supported XEPs) but they lack basic stuff like systray support (at least the last time I checked it out). For a long time Gajim wasn't any better than Pidgin, but earlier this year they released their version 1.0 which added support for some more XEPs most importantly MAM (enables proper history synchronization between clients). Since that release I switched to Gajim and stopped looking for alternatives ;-)
nyconyco 8y ago
We are trying to fix the shameful situation: https://nayego.net/ https://nayego.net/ you can subscribe if you want to see the preview, but it's work in progress.
- travbrack 8y ago
  Suggestion: Have a tour of the product that doesn't require a signup. If I don't want to give you my email address, I'm left to use my imagination based on your description.

h1d 8y ago

Servers seem solid and there's also ejabberd but what about clients? I want clients that are stable, cross platform and does push notification and last time I checked, there were none. Also, I don't like the fact that it's person based whereas mattermost (and IRC) are group based that also allows person based chat.