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2966 and 2968 are about what the new borders of the UK would effectively be if Turkey is allowed to join the EU. Regardless of your thoughts on the Middle East,

2966 and 2968 are about what the new borders of the UK would effectively be if Turkey is allowed to join the EU. Regardless of your thoughts on the Middle East, it is clear that there are dangerous people in Iraq. Given that the EU has open borders and markets (for the most part), isn't it a germaine discussion if that supranational entity wants to enlarge its borders to include ports of entry from a somewhat unstable country? I mean... britain wouldn't be the ones policing the border, it would be turkey. Yet, those crossing the border would have some rights to enter and work in Britain, right? I mean, in the US, the Mexican border is a rather scary place. For a long time, some of the American border towns were the kidnapping capitals of the world mainly due to their proximity to the border. Who you border certainly matters to your country's security. 2924 makes sense to me in the context of the other statistics. It does seem strange to include two countries with such large wage and economic disparities in the same 'federal' system (which is effectively what the EU is). EDIT: I find your claims of xenophobia even less compelling after I viewed what the British have to say about Spain (bullfighting), Norway (whale hunting), France (unemployment), Portugal (unemployment), etc. Unless you claim that any kind of criticism of an outside country is xenophobia, the Leave campaign seems quite comprehensive in its criticisms of EU member countries (and potential members).

pimmen 8y ago
But then they're disingenuous about how the EU works. Member countries have to unanimously agree to new member countries, the UK could just veto the ascension of Turkey indefinitely.
- tathougies 8y ago
  I didn't know that. I agree the ads are disingenuous; but they are not xenophobic. In my opinion, xenophobic is one of those labels that can be applied without evidence to stymie conversation in lieu of more compelling criticisms (like the one you present). Why resort to name calling if you have actual criticisms?
derriz 8y ago
“Yet, those crossing the border would have some rights to enter and work in Britain, right?” Absolutely wrong. Where did you get that idea?
- tathougies 8y ago
  I'm not an EU or UK citizen, so I don't really know, but my initial assumption seems right: http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/eu-citizens-working-uk.html http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/eu-citizens-working-uk.htm... > Despite the vote to exit the EU, the UK will still remain a member of the EU until Article 50 negotiations have concluded. This means most citizens of countries in the European Union (EU), the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland have the right to live and work in the UK under European law. European nationals may also bring their family with them to live in the UK. However, to exercise the right to live in the UK nationals of these countries must be able to support themselves and their families without having to rely on public funds. > European nationals with the right to live in the UK are, with certain exceptions, are still entitled to work in the UK and do not need to obtain a visa or work permit in order to do so. European nationals have the same rights as UK citizens in this respect, and employers must treat them equally. An employer who treats an EEA or Swiss worker differently purely because he is not from the UK is guilty of discrimination. It sounds like if turkey were to enter the EU, Turkish nationals would have some kind of right to enter the United Kingdom.
  - detaro 8y ago
    > I mean... britain wouldn't be the ones policing the border, it would be turkey. You were clearly talking about the Turkish border in your previous comment. Entering Turkey doesn't make you an EU citizen, and the UK, not being part of Schengen and having no land border to the mainland, has lots of freedom to police it's own borders against non-EU nationals trying to enter from other EU countries. Turkish (then EU) citizens would have the right to enter and work in the UK, yes.
    - tathougies 8y ago
      Ah, because the UK has its own internal border where they would verify citizenship. I forgot about that. So you're saying that, if an Iraqi national is allowed entry into a hypothetical Turkey in the EU -- even if Turkey were to have open borders with the rest of the EU -- that same person would have to go through UK border security separately still.
pjc50 8y ago
> Unless you claim that any kind of criticism of an outside country is xenophobia Stereotype-based criticism of other countries is xenophobia.
- tathougies 8y ago
  The criticisms they had seemed backed up by data. They cite wage disparities between the UK and other potential EU members. They cite various events that many Britons (I assume) would find offensive (like the Norwegian whale hunts and spanish bull fights).
CaptainZapp 8y ago
Given that the EU has open borders and markets (for the most part), isn't it a germaine discussion if that supranational entity wants to enlarge its borders to include ports of entry from a somewhat unstable country? I mean... britain wouldn't be the ones policing the border, it would be turkey. You may be confusing the EU with the Schengen area, which is indeed (relatively) physical border less. While most EU countries are in the Schengen area (including the non-EU members Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland) the UK was never part of the Schengen accord and manages its own borders. While you're never asked for identification when you fly from Dusseldorf to Zurich, border controls are quite strict (on both sides) if you fly from Prague to Manchester (or to Manila for that matter). Taking back control of the borders was always pretty much a bullshit argument, if not an outright lie by the Brexiteers, since britain never gave that up.

pimmen 8y ago

But then they're disingenuous about how the EU works. Member countries have to unanimously agree to new member countries, the UK could just veto the ascension of Turkey indefinitely.

tathougies 8y ago
I didn't know that. I agree the ads are disingenuous; but they are not xenophobic. In my opinion, xenophobic is one of those labels that can be applied without evidence to stymie conversation in lieu of more compelling criticisms (like the one you present). Why resort to name calling if you have actual criticisms?

derriz 8y ago

“Yet, those crossing the border would have some rights to enter and work in Britain, right?” Absolutely wrong. Where did you get that idea?

tathougies 8y ago
I'm not an EU or UK citizen, so I don't really know, but my initial assumption seems right: http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/eu-citizens-working-uk.html http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/eu-citizens-working-uk.htm... > Despite the vote to exit the EU, the UK will still remain a member of the EU until Article 50 negotiations have concluded. This means most citizens of countries in the European Union (EU), the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland have the right to live and work in the UK under European law. European nationals may also bring their family with them to live in the UK. However, to exercise the right to live in the UK nationals of these countries must be able to support themselves and their families without having to rely on public funds. > European nationals with the right to live in the UK are, with certain exceptions, are still entitled to work in the UK and do not need to obtain a visa or work permit in order to do so. European nationals have the same rights as UK citizens in this respect, and employers must treat them equally. An employer who treats an EEA or Swiss worker differently purely because he is not from the UK is guilty of discrimination. It sounds like if turkey were to enter the EU, Turkish nationals would have some kind of right to enter the United Kingdom.
- detaro 8y ago
  > I mean... britain wouldn't be the ones policing the border, it would be turkey. You were clearly talking about the Turkish border in your previous comment. Entering Turkey doesn't make you an EU citizen, and the UK, not being part of Schengen and having no land border to the mainland, has lots of freedom to police it's own borders against non-EU nationals trying to enter from other EU countries. Turkish (then EU) citizens would have the right to enter and work in the UK, yes.
  - tathougies 8y ago
    Ah, because the UK has its own internal border where they would verify citizenship. I forgot about that. So you're saying that, if an Iraqi national is allowed entry into a hypothetical Turkey in the EU -- even if Turkey were to have open borders with the rest of the EU -- that same person would have to go through UK border security separately still.

pjc50 8y ago

> Unless you claim that any kind of criticism of an outside country is xenophobia Stereotype-based criticism of other countries is xenophobia.

tathougies 8y ago
The criticisms they had seemed backed up by data. They cite wage disparities between the UK and other potential EU members. They cite various events that many Britons (I assume) would find offensive (like the Norwegian whale hunts and spanish bull fights).

CaptainZapp 8y ago

Given that the EU has open borders and markets (for the most part), isn't it a germaine discussion if that supranational entity wants to enlarge its borders to include ports of entry from a somewhat unstable country? I mean... britain wouldn't be the ones policing the border, it would be turkey. You may be confusing the EU with the Schengen area, which is indeed (relatively) physical border less. While most EU countries are in the Schengen area (including the non-EU members Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland) the UK was never part of the Schengen accord and manages its own borders. While you're never asked for identification when you fly from Dusseldorf to Zurich, border controls are quite strict (on both sides) if you fly from Prague to Manchester (or to Manila for that matter). Taking back control of the borders was always pretty much a bullshit argument, if not an outright lie by the Brexiteers, since britain never gave that up.