4 ms·

It's interesting how people generally consider it acceptable for insurance companies to discriminate based on gender, when that discrimination would probably no

It's interesting how people generally consider it acceptable for insurance companies to discriminate based on gender, when that discrimination would probably not be considered OK in other areas. You don't choose your gender, why should you be punished for it? Would people also be OK if insurance companies discriminated based on race? Surely there is some correlation between race and collision risk as well.

derefr 8y ago
I know you’re trying to do a reductio ad absurdam here, but insurance companies already do discriminate based on race. In fact, it would be irresponsible for medical insurance providers, in particular, to not discriminate (that is, have different premiums) based on race. Black people have more heart attacks, white people are more likely to develop Seasonal Affective Disorder in the same geographic region, etc. It’s nothing to do with predicting behaviour, it’s just differing physiologies, causing different levels of risk of certain physiological conditions irrespective of the choices we make or how we’re raised. As well, different races respond better or worse to different drugs. There might be a cheap way to treat hispanic people for a condition but only an expensive way to treat any other race. In that situation, if there was actuarial data saying that Hispanic person A and non-Hispanic person B had an equal chance of developing that condition, it would make sense for person B’s premiums to be higher, no? If you can predict, per person, not only the chance of an event causing a condition requiring an insurance-covered response; but also predict, per person, the size of the total insurance pay-out from a given event, then people who will need more expensive treatments for the same condition will need higher premiums. It’s like flood insurance: insuring a house closer to the coast costs more, but insuring a larger house also costs more. Because the pay-out will have to be higher to fix a larger house, even though the flood was the same. Same damage—more expensive solution required.
- GhostVII 8y ago
  Wow, I had no idea they discriminated based on race, that sounds kind of wrong to me. I mean for medical purposes it makes sense, do they also do it for auto insurance, where, in theory, your race does not make a difference?
  - lykr0n 8y ago
    https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/809956 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... page #16 shows deaths by "Ethnicity" and "gender." There seems to be a difference between the different ethnic groups.
  - empthought 8y ago
    They don't discriminate based on race. They do discriminate based on ZIP code, which is correlated with race.
- rdl 8y ago
  In the US, it is illegal to use race (or gender), both of which are highly predictive of health care costs. You can use age and smoking, but that’s about it, at least on individual issuance under ACA. The age increase is about 50% of what the true actuarial cost is, so the young subsidize the old. The result is a healthy 26mo white man gets overcharged and a pregnant, unhealthy, overweight 40yo black woman is undercharged. Usually this just means the 26yo chooses not to get insurance. (Men are cheaper because they don’t have as many routine medical exams, they don’t go in to the doctor generally even when they should, they don’t get pregnant and their health problems seem to include sudden out-of-hospital death more than chronic conditions. That makes them substantially cheaper to insure even if not actually “healthier”.) Pre existing conditions and known upcoming things (like, planning to get pregnant) or superior knowledge of one’s health status and risk profile make health insurance a really defective marketplace.
  - janlukacs 8y ago
    And that my friends is how socialism fails, and everybody loses (after an initial period when people are generally satisfied).
    - dang 8y ago
      Please keep generic ideological comments off HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - cardplayer 8y ago
    I strongly disagree. The US is still highly highly segregated. Just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Discrimination in the case of insurance, advertising, housing, etc happens by zip code. Live in the wrong zip code and you’re screwed.
  - nojvek 8y ago
    It’s also hard to verify if they are indeed discriminating. Insurance companies stand behind a veil of “complex model”.
- klipt 8y ago
  Insurers are legally forbidden from using race directly. Two people of different races who list identical details on their application should receive identical quotes. The ACA provides a similar legal protection for gender in health insurance. We just need to extend that protection to car insurance.
- jazzyk 8y ago
  >Black people have more heart attacks, Nothing to do with race, more about social standing. Black people tend to be less educated/affluent. Poor diet -> obesity -> heart attacks. 33% of whites are obese, while 48% of blacks are obese. Much more information can be found here: https://stateofobesity.org/disparities/ https://stateofobesity.org/disparities/ >white people are more likely to develop Seasonal Affective Disorder in the same geographic region, etc. Again, nothing to do with race. White people tend to live in places like Alaska, Maine, etc. which have long and cold (and dark) winters.
  - kingofpandora 8y ago
    I don't know if he's right or wrong but he wrote white people are more likely to develop Seasonal Affective Disorder in the same geographic region", so saying that white people tend to live in Alaska or Maine doesn't explain anything.
titanix2 8y ago
It seems that each time a discrimination is in favor of women, there is no debate about it. It’s a strong hint that the self-named gender equality movement is not what it pretends it is.
- kingofpandora 8y ago
  Yeah this is totally the fault of feminists.
friedButter 8y ago
Usually its considered OK to discriminate against a historically privileged class...

derefr 8y ago

I know you’re trying to do a reductio ad absurdam here, but insurance companies already do discriminate based on race. In fact, it would be irresponsible for medical insurance providers, in particular, to not discriminate (that is, have different premiums) based on race. Black people have more heart attacks, white people are more likely to develop Seasonal Affective Disorder in the same geographic region, etc. It’s nothing to do with predicting behaviour, it’s just differing physiologies, causing different levels of risk of certain physiological conditions irrespective of the choices we make or how we’re raised. As well, different races respond better or worse to different drugs. There might be a cheap way to treat hispanic people for a condition but only an expensive way to treat any other race. In that situation, if there was actuarial data saying that Hispanic person A and non-Hispanic person B had an equal chance of developing that condition, it would make sense for person B’s premiums to be higher, no? If you can predict, per person, not only the chance of an event causing a condition requiring an insurance-covered response; but also predict, per person, the size of the total insurance pay-out from a given event, then people who will need more expensive treatments for the same condition will need higher premiums. It’s like flood insurance: insuring a house closer to the coast costs more, but insuring a larger house also costs more. Because the pay-out will have to be higher to fix a larger house, even though the flood was the same. Same damage—more expensive solution required.

GhostVII 8y ago
Wow, I had no idea they discriminated based on race, that sounds kind of wrong to me. I mean for medical purposes it makes sense, do they also do it for auto insurance, where, in theory, your race does not make a difference?
- lykr0n 8y ago
  https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/809956 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... page #16 shows deaths by "Ethnicity" and "gender." There seems to be a difference between the different ethnic groups.
- empthought 8y ago
  They don't discriminate based on race. They do discriminate based on ZIP code, which is correlated with race.
rdl 8y ago
In the US, it is illegal to use race (or gender), both of which are highly predictive of health care costs. You can use age and smoking, but that’s about it, at least on individual issuance under ACA. The age increase is about 50% of what the true actuarial cost is, so the young subsidize the old. The result is a healthy 26mo white man gets overcharged and a pregnant, unhealthy, overweight 40yo black woman is undercharged. Usually this just means the 26yo chooses not to get insurance. (Men are cheaper because they don’t have as many routine medical exams, they don’t go in to the doctor generally even when they should, they don’t get pregnant and their health problems seem to include sudden out-of-hospital death more than chronic conditions. That makes them substantially cheaper to insure even if not actually “healthier”.) Pre existing conditions and known upcoming things (like, planning to get pregnant) or superior knowledge of one’s health status and risk profile make health insurance a really defective marketplace.
- janlukacs 8y ago
  And that my friends is how socialism fails, and everybody loses (after an initial period when people are generally satisfied).
  - dang 8y ago
    Please keep generic ideological comments off HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cardplayer 8y ago
  I strongly disagree. The US is still highly highly segregated. Just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Discrimination in the case of insurance, advertising, housing, etc happens by zip code. Live in the wrong zip code and you’re screwed.
- nojvek 8y ago
  It’s also hard to verify if they are indeed discriminating. Insurance companies stand behind a veil of “complex model”.
klipt 8y ago
Insurers are legally forbidden from using race directly. Two people of different races who list identical details on their application should receive identical quotes. The ACA provides a similar legal protection for gender in health insurance. We just need to extend that protection to car insurance.
jazzyk 8y ago
>Black people have more heart attacks, Nothing to do with race, more about social standing. Black people tend to be less educated/affluent. Poor diet -> obesity -> heart attacks. 33% of whites are obese, while 48% of blacks are obese. Much more information can be found here: https://stateofobesity.org/disparities/ https://stateofobesity.org/disparities/ >white people are more likely to develop Seasonal Affective Disorder in the same geographic region, etc. Again, nothing to do with race. White people tend to live in places like Alaska, Maine, etc. which have long and cold (and dark) winters.
- kingofpandora 8y ago
  I don't know if he's right or wrong but he wrote white people are more likely to develop Seasonal Affective Disorder in the same geographic region", so saying that white people tend to live in Alaska or Maine doesn't explain anything.

titanix2 8y ago

It seems that each time a discrimination is in favor of women, there is no debate about it. It’s a strong hint that the self-named gender equality movement is not what it pretends it is.

kingofpandora 8y ago
Yeah this is totally the fault of feminists.

friedButter 8y ago

Usually its considered OK to discriminate against a historically privileged class...