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It's a post from my own blog, but I'd really be interested in what HN thinks (are any others in the same position or have they been and how did you get out of i

It's a post from my own blog, but I'd really be interested in what HN thinks (are any others in the same position or have they been and how did you get out of it)

oceanician 16y ago
Is it the next 10 mins. The next 2 tutorials that you're after? Always considered the first 5 mins pretty well documented, but then after that you're in a requirements driven area, of I need my app to do xyz. How can I get it there. I guess my thoughts are what are you trying to achieve with your next tutorial in Rails? I'm guessing you've found RailsCast?
apotheon 16y ago
I found Ruby itself a lot easier to learn than Rails, actually. Try doing some plain ol' Ruby learning instead. You know at least a little programming, so I'd recommend starting with Everyday Scripting With Ruby rather than with Learning Ruby. I don't know much about the more recent editions of Agile Web Development With Rails, but I have a copy of the first edition. In it, Appendix A is Introduction to Ruby. That introduction is about useless to someone who doesn't know any programming, but provides an easy, quick familiarization with the basics of how Ruby (the language, as opposed to Rails the framework) works. If you have access to a copy of the book that has such an Introduction to Ruby appendix, combining that with Everyday Scripting With Ruby makes for a very effective start in the language for those who already dabble in programming. I'd recommend starting out on a Unix-like platform, and using Ruby to automate small tasks as a way to get used to using the language. While you're at it, learn the OptParse core library, which is great for adding command line option handling to your utilities, as well as help output. If you want to migrate from there to simple Web coding, you do not necessarily have to jump straight into Rails or any other framework. You can do CGI programming in Ruby, or you can use eruby to do template-based development much like the basic means of using PHP on most Webhosts. edit: Wow. Maybe I should write a book introducing people to Ruby.
- thehodge 16y ago
  Thanks, I'll definitely checkout that book :)
auxbuss 16y ago
Since you know PHP, why not spend some time using a PHP-type framework, say yii. Once you have the MVC framework thing down, Rails will make a lot more sense. Small steps.
- thehodge 16y ago
  Small steps is exactly what I'm after but I guess in my mind, to keep going I need to convince myself I'm making progress
  - apotheon 16y ago
    This is a common problem in programming books and tutorials, from what I've seen. They all seem to adhere to a false dichotomy, as if there is no choice other than "small steps but no reward for a long time" or "big, huge steps, each with a payoff". This is one of the reasons I believe that more focus on Unix-like command line development early on, with real-world usable functionality as the goal of such development, should be more of a part of general-purpose programming language tutorials. Learning the "right" way to include command line option handling, and learning how to build filter utilities, should be near the beginning of every major tutorial. These skills provide the student with the basis of a lot of novice-level exploratory programming that would be of real, practical use to the larval programmer.

It's a post from my own blog, but I'd really be interested in what HN thinks (are any others in the same position or have they been and how did you get out of it)

oceanician 16y ago

Is it the next 10 mins. The next 2 tutorials that you're after? Always considered the first 5 mins pretty well documented, but then after that you're in a requirements driven area, of I need my app to do xyz. How can I get it there. I guess my thoughts are what are you trying to achieve with your next tutorial in Rails? I'm guessing you've found RailsCast?

apotheon 16y ago

I found Ruby itself a lot easier to learn than Rails, actually. Try doing some plain ol' Ruby learning instead. You know at least a little programming, so I'd recommend starting with Everyday Scripting With Ruby rather than with Learning Ruby. I don't know much about the more recent editions of Agile Web Development With Rails, but I have a copy of the first edition. In it, Appendix A is Introduction to Ruby. That introduction is about useless to someone who doesn't know any programming, but provides an easy, quick familiarization with the basics of how Ruby (the language, as opposed to Rails the framework) works. If you have access to a copy of the book that has such an Introduction to Ruby appendix, combining that with Everyday Scripting With Ruby makes for a very effective start in the language for those who already dabble in programming. I'd recommend starting out on a Unix-like platform, and using Ruby to automate small tasks as a way to get used to using the language. While you're at it, learn the OptParse core library, which is great for adding command line option handling to your utilities, as well as help output. If you want to migrate from there to simple Web coding, you do not necessarily have to jump straight into Rails or any other framework. You can do CGI programming in Ruby, or you can use eruby to do template-based development much like the basic means of using PHP on most Webhosts. edit: Wow. Maybe I should write a book introducing people to Ruby.

thehodge 16y ago
Thanks, I'll definitely checkout that book :)

auxbuss 16y ago

Since you know PHP, why not spend some time using a PHP-type framework, say yii. Once you have the MVC framework thing down, Rails will make a lot more sense. Small steps.

thehodge 16y ago
Small steps is exactly what I'm after but I guess in my mind, to keep going I need to convince myself I'm making progress
- apotheon 16y ago
  This is a common problem in programming books and tutorials, from what I've seen. They all seem to adhere to a false dichotomy, as if there is no choice other than "small steps but no reward for a long time" or "big, huge steps, each with a payoff". This is one of the reasons I believe that more focus on Unix-like command line development early on, with real-world usable functionality as the goal of such development, should be more of a part of general-purpose programming language tutorials. Learning the "right" way to include command line option handling, and learning how to build filter utilities, should be near the beginning of every major tutorial. These skills provide the student with the basis of a lot of novice-level exploratory programming that would be of real, practical use to the larval programmer.