3 ms·

> Crooked and corrupt. It's just business. Every business does it. Get used to it. Have an iPhone are forced to buy things from the App Store? Crooked and

by ProAm 8y ago

> Crooked and corrupt. It's just business. Every business does it. Get used to it. Have an iPhone are forced to buy things from the App Store? Crooked and corrupt...? Bought a Tesla and cant use it for independent ride sharing? Crooked and corrupt? It's just business.

394549 8y ago
>> Crooked and corrupt. > It's just business. Every business does it. Get used to it. No, that's how you get endemic corruption, which eventually leads to things like people dying from deliberately tainted food and shoddy medicine. Widespread intolerance of corruption and scams eventually builds a trustworthy environment that's better for everyone.
- ProAm 8y ago
  It's just business. Recommending your own text book is not crooked and corrupt. It's business. Forcing your users to acquire all apps for your iPhone through your own app store is also not crooked and corrupt. It's just business. Everyone tolerates it because money talks.
  - 394549 8y ago
    > It's just business. Everyone tolerates it because money talks. Sometimes "business" must bow down to things like ethics, otherwise it tends towards corruption and exploitation. Hocking your own book in a list of the "best textbooks on every subject" is definitely a kind of corruption. It may get you some sales but it abuses the list and any trust placed in it. Recommendations like that should be made without such conflicts of interest. Also, repeating "it's just business" a bunch of times isn't a very good argument in favor of anything, it's nearly totally free of any content.
    - ProAm 8y ago
      > Sometimes "business" must bow down to things like ethics, otherwise it tends towards corruption and exploitation. That's if you get caught. On paper I completely agree with you, but in reality I think you'll find many many many businesses and industry that skirt ethically and moral behavior to cement their bottom line. I keep repeating its just business because it is, ultimately everything comes down to money especially in business. Is it inappropriate to charge people a higher price for an airline ticket because they browse your website with a macbook? It happens. What about amazon raising the price for an item because you've browsed it several times in the past already? Recommending your own book because you believe in its contents but also helps to put a roof over your head? It's all just business.
      - tivert 8y ago
        >> Sometimes "business" must bow down to things like ethics, otherwise it tends towards corruption and exploitation. > That's if you get caught. On paper I completely agree with you, but in reality I think you'll find many many many businesses and industry that skirt ethically and moral behavior to cement their bottom line. No, businesses, and the people who they're composed of, must bow down to things like ethics, even when they wouldn't get "caught" behaving unethically. > I keep repeating its just business because it is, ultimately everything comes down to money especially in business. That's a morally bankrupt sentiment. Don't hold up a descriptive model of sociopathic behavior as a normative model of social behavior. Simple models can be intellectually compelling, but neither correct nor complete. Simple economic theories, especially not the ones laymen read, do not represent the bedrock principles of society or human behavior. There's much they leave out and more that's orthogonal to them.
        ProAm 8y ago
        > Don't hold up a descriptive model of sociopathic behavior as a normative model of social behavior. Do you use Uber, Apple, Github or Amazon? Because if you do you are accepting these principals as just being part of business and it comes down to money. Most CEOs and/or founders exhibit a significant degree of sociopathic behavior and it's clearly accepted (evidenced by the support seen in HN discussions). Yes simple models can be neither 100% or complete but do show a general trend. Move fast and break things, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, all is fair in love andwar (and business). Im not saying its right, Im saying Im not surprised and expect this behavior from most companies and also expect some sort of insane justification when caught.
butterfi 8y ago
The textbook industry is well known for its shady practices that go beyond "just doing business." Try this: https://www.edutopia.org/textbook-publishing-controversy https://www.edutopia.org/textbook-publishing-controversy
- ProAm 8y ago
  Most industries have practices that can be considered shady. It's not unique to the text book industry is my point.
  - mercer 8y ago
    I don't get your point? It's common so we shouldn't discuss or challenge it?
    - ProAm 8y ago
      We can discuss and challenge it but dont be surprised at how pervasive the practice is, the OP seem appalled and shocked this could even happen.
      - mercer 8y ago
        Isn't that a good thing, then? I feel there's already way too little 'appalled and shocked' going on because we just roll over and adapt.
  - tivert 8y ago
    >>> It's just business. Every business does it. Get used to it. >> The textbook industry is well known for its shady practices that go beyond "just doing business." > Most industries have practices that can be considered shady. It's not unique to the text book industry is my point. Ah, the famous "I claim everyone's doing it without proof, so it's OK" argument.
    - ProAm 8y ago
      > Ah, the famous "I claim everyone's doing it without proof, so it's OK" argument. Being OK, and something happening all the time are different arguments. Im just saying it happens everywhere, not OK but also unavoidable.
drngdds 8y ago
"Just business" (aka profit maximization or capitalism) is frequently crooked and corrupt
77pt77 8y ago
> Bought a Tesla and cant use it for independent ride sharing Come again?
- fencepost 8y ago
  Look up elsewhere, but IIRC Tesla bars use of its SuperChargers for vehicles being used commercially. Not sure if that just slows charging or if it fully restricts the vehicle to home and other private chargers.
- ProAm 8y ago
  [1] https://www.techtimes.com/articles/183320/20161022/no-ridesharing-tesla-bans-drivers-from-using-tesla-cars-for-uber-or-lyft.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/183320/20161022/no-ridesh...

by ProAm 8y ago

394549 8y ago

>> Crooked and corrupt. > It's just business. Every business does it. Get used to it. No, that's how you get endemic corruption, which eventually leads to things like people dying from deliberately tainted food and shoddy medicine. Widespread intolerance of corruption and scams eventually builds a trustworthy environment that's better for everyone.

ProAm 8y ago
It's just business. Recommending your own text book is not crooked and corrupt. It's business. Forcing your users to acquire all apps for your iPhone through your own app store is also not crooked and corrupt. It's just business. Everyone tolerates it because money talks.
- 394549 8y ago
  > It's just business. Everyone tolerates it because money talks. Sometimes "business" must bow down to things like ethics, otherwise it tends towards corruption and exploitation. Hocking your own book in a list of the "best textbooks on every subject" is definitely a kind of corruption. It may get you some sales but it abuses the list and any trust placed in it. Recommendations like that should be made without such conflicts of interest. Also, repeating "it's just business" a bunch of times isn't a very good argument in favor of anything, it's nearly totally free of any content.
  - ProAm 8y ago
    > Sometimes "business" must bow down to things like ethics, otherwise it tends towards corruption and exploitation. That's if you get caught. On paper I completely agree with you, but in reality I think you'll find many many many businesses and industry that skirt ethically and moral behavior to cement their bottom line. I keep repeating its just business because it is, ultimately everything comes down to money especially in business. Is it inappropriate to charge people a higher price for an airline ticket because they browse your website with a macbook? It happens. What about amazon raising the price for an item because you've browsed it several times in the past already? Recommending your own book because you believe in its contents but also helps to put a roof over your head? It's all just business.
    - tivert 8y ago
      >> Sometimes "business" must bow down to things like ethics, otherwise it tends towards corruption and exploitation. > That's if you get caught. On paper I completely agree with you, but in reality I think you'll find many many many businesses and industry that skirt ethically and moral behavior to cement their bottom line. No, businesses, and the people who they're composed of, must bow down to things like ethics, even when they wouldn't get "caught" behaving unethically. > I keep repeating its just business because it is, ultimately everything comes down to money especially in business. That's a morally bankrupt sentiment. Don't hold up a descriptive model of sociopathic behavior as a normative model of social behavior. Simple models can be intellectually compelling, but neither correct nor complete. Simple economic theories, especially not the ones laymen read, do not represent the bedrock principles of society or human behavior. There's much they leave out and more that's orthogonal to them.
      - ProAm 8y ago
        > Don't hold up a descriptive model of sociopathic behavior as a normative model of social behavior. Do you use Uber, Apple, Github or Amazon? Because if you do you are accepting these principals as just being part of business and it comes down to money. Most CEOs and/or founders exhibit a significant degree of sociopathic behavior and it's clearly accepted (evidenced by the support seen in HN discussions). Yes simple models can be neither 100% or complete but do show a general trend. Move fast and break things, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, all is fair in love andwar (and business). Im not saying its right, Im saying Im not surprised and expect this behavior from most companies and also expect some sort of insane justification when caught.

butterfi 8y ago

The textbook industry is well known for its shady practices that go beyond "just doing business." Try this: https://www.edutopia.org/textbook-publishing-controversy https://www.edutopia.org/textbook-publishing-controversy

ProAm 8y ago
Most industries have practices that can be considered shady. It's not unique to the text book industry is my point.
- mercer 8y ago
  I don't get your point? It's common so we shouldn't discuss or challenge it?
  - ProAm 8y ago
    We can discuss and challenge it but dont be surprised at how pervasive the practice is, the OP seem appalled and shocked this could even happen.
    - mercer 8y ago
      Isn't that a good thing, then? I feel there's already way too little 'appalled and shocked' going on because we just roll over and adapt.
- tivert 8y ago
  >>> It's just business. Every business does it. Get used to it. >> The textbook industry is well known for its shady practices that go beyond "just doing business." > Most industries have practices that can be considered shady. It's not unique to the text book industry is my point. Ah, the famous "I claim everyone's doing it without proof, so it's OK" argument.
  - ProAm 8y ago
    > Ah, the famous "I claim everyone's doing it without proof, so it's OK" argument. Being OK, and something happening all the time are different arguments. Im just saying it happens everywhere, not OK but also unavoidable.

drngdds 8y ago

"Just business" (aka profit maximization or capitalism) is frequently crooked and corrupt

77pt77 8y ago

> Bought a Tesla and cant use it for independent ride sharing Come again?

fencepost 8y ago
Look up elsewhere, but IIRC Tesla bars use of its SuperChargers for vehicles being used commercially. Not sure if that just slows charging or if it fully restricts the vehicle to home and other private chargers.
ProAm 8y ago
[1] https://www.techtimes.com/articles/183320/20161022/no-ridesharing-tesla-bans-drivers-from-using-tesla-cars-for-uber-or-lyft.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/183320/20161022/no-ridesh...