5 ms·

Not sure if I agree. I would still say that WASM enables new types of applications. Of course you could have compiled all that new WASM applications to asm.js o

Not sure if I agree. I would still say that WASM enables new types of applications. Of course you could have compiled all that new WASM applications to asm.js or even JS as well. But it would've been slower: maybe even unusable slow. That's why I think WASM enables new types of applications. It's the same as in the past where faster JS engines enabled richer web applications like GMail, etc. Now we get games in the browser and large native applications like AutoCAD.

colanderman 8y ago
I don't doubt the claim that a Java Applet can be faster than JavaScript, but I haven't ever seen a modern high-performance web application written as a Java Applet. The CAD stuff, games, etc., are always Flash (EDIT: when they aren't JavaScript). So the comparison is really Flash vs. JavaScript. And… comparing Flash to V8? I'm having trouble finding modern benchmarks, but Flash is based on ActionScript, which is related to JavaScript. JavaScript has V8, which is a world-class JIT with Google's engineering talent behind it. I'd be very surprised if Flash's JIT was competitive with V8. At least as of 2011 it wasn't [1]. [1] https://habr.com/post/121997/ https://habr.com/post/121997/
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- readittwice 8y ago
  My answer was in reply to "WASM enables nothing". I argue that WASM is faster than JS, therefore it enables new applications. I didn't make any claims about Java Applets or Flash performance.
  - colanderman 8y ago
    Ah sorry I thought you were replying to "no-one would complain about Flash or Java Applets". I don't disagree that WASM is faster than JS; in fact I make that point myself in several comments. My point is that WASM's speed does not enable it to be abused like Flash in a way that JavaScript cannot be, because JavaScript is already as fast as (in fact faster than) Flash thanks to modern JITs like V8. The reasons that WASM is not the "new Flash" must therefore be the same reasons that V8 + Canvas are not.
- opencl 8y ago
  What Flash-based CAD have you seen? AutoCAD and Sketchup web versions are both using WASM. Onshape and Tinkercad use JS.
  - colanderman 8y ago
    Sorry, bad example. I have hazy memories of full-screen "creator" type apps in Flash from years ago. You are right that they are all JavaScript or WASM now (owing no doubt to the performance enhancements V8 has brought).
overgard 8y ago
I worked on a 3d web based modeling app in my last job (Autodesk) that was based on asm.js. (and this was a legit solid modeler with heavy CPU usage - not a toy). It was basically 50% speed compared to the desktop version, which isn't ideal but totally viable. WASM is definitely welcome but you could do the same things in 2015 with asm.js. Honestly I think the biggest selling point is decreased download size. That was our big pain point with asm.js

colanderman 8y ago

I don't doubt the claim that a Java Applet can be faster than JavaScript, but I haven't ever seen a modern high-performance web application written as a Java Applet. The CAD stuff, games, etc., are always Flash (EDIT: when they aren't JavaScript). So the comparison is really Flash vs. JavaScript. And… comparing Flash to V8? I'm having trouble finding modern benchmarks, but Flash is based on ActionScript, which is related to JavaScript. JavaScript has V8, which is a world-class JIT with Google's engineering talent behind it. I'd be very surprised if Flash's JIT was competitive with V8. At least as of 2011 it wasn't [1]. [1] https://habr.com/post/121997/ https://habr.com/post/121997/

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
readittwice 8y ago
My answer was in reply to "WASM enables nothing". I argue that WASM is faster than JS, therefore it enables new applications. I didn't make any claims about Java Applets or Flash performance.
- colanderman 8y ago
  Ah sorry I thought you were replying to "no-one would complain about Flash or Java Applets". I don't disagree that WASM is faster than JS; in fact I make that point myself in several comments. My point is that WASM's speed does not enable it to be abused like Flash in a way that JavaScript cannot be, because JavaScript is already as fast as (in fact faster than) Flash thanks to modern JITs like V8. The reasons that WASM is not the "new Flash" must therefore be the same reasons that V8 + Canvas are not.
opencl 8y ago
What Flash-based CAD have you seen? AutoCAD and Sketchup web versions are both using WASM. Onshape and Tinkercad use JS.
- colanderman 8y ago
  Sorry, bad example. I have hazy memories of full-screen "creator" type apps in Flash from years ago. You are right that they are all JavaScript or WASM now (owing no doubt to the performance enhancements V8 has brought).

overgard 8y ago

I worked on a 3d web based modeling app in my last job (Autodesk) that was based on asm.js. (and this was a legit solid modeler with heavy CPU usage - not a toy). It was basically 50% speed compared to the desktop version, which isn't ideal but totally viable. WASM is definitely welcome but you could do the same things in 2015 with asm.js. Honestly I think the biggest selling point is decreased download size. That was our big pain point with asm.js