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I just don't get the point of this letter. Why is it so difficult to leave this particular social network? The biggest problem I have with Facebook is how it e

I just don't get the point of this letter. Why is it so difficult to leave this particular social network? The biggest problem I have with Facebook is how it evolved from a great place for me to keep up with my more distant friends and family to... whatever it is now. I know I'm an outlier, but I quit Facebook around 2010 or so when I noticed it was being too aggressive in pushing my account to be more public; increasing my curated circle of interest to include friends of friends, and their friends too. When I found I was spending more time negotiating the byzantine system of settings to keep my page private than actually using the site, I knew it was time to go. Is it really such an important website that it must change to suit these folks rather than them finding another way to network with their contacts? It's 2018, and there are options. Perhaps I'm wrong and having a Facebook account is more important in society than I realize?

omegaworks 8y ago
>Why is it so difficult to leave this particular social network? From the article, it seems fairly reasonable to determine that these families have stopped using Facebook. The problem is that the groups that are spreading this propaganda are also spreading the private contact information of the families, a practice known as doxxing. People influenced by the propaganda are then able to use non-Facebook mediums (phone/mail/in-person asshattery) to continue their harassment.
- patient_zero 8y ago
  >The problem is that the groups that are spreading this propaganda are also spreading the private contact information of the families, a practice known as doxxing. Isn't the doxxing the problem then? It seems like the focus is in the wrong place. Don't we already have laws on the books to stop harrassement? Don't we have laws to stop from inciting violence? If we need to strenghen them then that's an opportunity for discussion. Do we need to talk about our free speech laws? I frankly think it's time to have that discussion, and not quite because of the reason you may think. Neither of those discussions is this discussion though, and that's my issue here. Facebook is (as another more eloquent commenter said) a megaphone. Why are we blaming the megaphone?
  - underdunder 8y ago
    I totally agree. The fatanasy of a digital Jesus that would save us all and bring heaven to the internet should stop.
  - omegaworks 8y ago
    >Isn't the doxxing the problem then? It seems like the focus is in the wrong place. Facebook is taking the stance that spaces (pages) that promote and spread this information must be protected. They are slow to take action against people (and their bot networks) that incite harassment. >Don't we already have laws on the books to stop harrassement? Don't we have laws to stop from inciting violence? Local police departments are not equipped to deal with internet harassment, even credible threats of violence. There are cross-jurisdictional restrictions on their ability to act.[1] >Why are we blaming the megaphone? Facebook is the entity that directly profits from the presence of these people on their platform. They optimize for engagement. If harassers keep your eyes on Facebook, then Facebook optimizes your feed to see more harassment. Hate-clicks are just as revenue generating for them as any other kind of click. 1. https://twitter.com/NoraReed/status/1019702132579037184 https://twitter.com/NoraReed/status/1019702132579037184
s73v3r_ 8y ago
Why should the onus be on those being harassed to leave? Why should the harassers get to win, when these people did absolutely nothing wrong?
- patient_zero 8y ago
  >Why should the harassers get to win... Well, I don't really see it as winning and losing. After all, you simply cannot win against crazy people. What's the old saying? About never getting in an argument with an idiot? My point I suppose (assuming I even have one) is why they would feel the need to stay, rather than just leaving. It didn't impact my life at all to delete my account, and I'm asking whether there were some development since that makes one NEED to stay. I know loads of people have accounts with FB, but the question I asked, and think they should be asking themselves is "why?"
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    "Well, I don't really see it as winning and losing." But that's not really a position that has basis in reality. To those doing the harassing, getting the people they target off of social media is, for them, a win. "My point I suppose (assuming I even have one) is why they would feel the need to stay, rather than just leaving." Because they want to use FB and social media like everyone else is able to? "It didn't impact my life at all to delete my account" I'm glad for you, but you're not everyone. "and I'm asking whether there were some development since that makes one NEED to stay" NEED doesn't come into it at all. If they want to continue to use the platform, they should be able to without dealing with that kind of harassment, plain and simple. "but the question I asked, and think they should be asking themselves is "why?"" And I think you should ask yourself why that question has any bearing on the situation. Why they should have to consider whether they can continue to do the same things that most other members of society get to do.
    - patient_zero 8y ago
      I get your point, people should be free from abuse. I agree. I am also asking something you cannot answer, namely "why do they need facebook?" Which is not even what they are saying in their letter to Zuck. That being said, you are coming off a bit aggressively. Perhaps I'm reading you wrong, but I'm asking a honest question and you are (it seems) just calling me selfish and thoughtless. These questions are not rhetorical, if that was unclear. Can you tell me please how you use facebook in your daily life personally and professionally? It may not have bearing on the greater discussion but I do want to know, as someone who hasn't used it in years.
dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
> I just don't get the point of this letter. You probably haven't been a victim of such a mass-scale harassment. > Why is it so difficult to leave this particular social network? It doesn't matter that much whether they are using it or not, these folks will track them down and harass in all other ways.
gmoore 8y ago
Another thinly veiled 'blame the victim' view. Instead of holding a powerful entity responsible for its behavior we suggest that the victim simply "leave this...network".

omegaworks 8y ago

>Why is it so difficult to leave this particular social network? From the article, it seems fairly reasonable to determine that these families have stopped using Facebook. The problem is that the groups that are spreading this propaganda are also spreading the private contact information of the families, a practice known as doxxing. People influenced by the propaganda are then able to use non-Facebook mediums (phone/mail/in-person asshattery) to continue their harassment.

patient_zero 8y ago
>The problem is that the groups that are spreading this propaganda are also spreading the private contact information of the families, a practice known as doxxing. Isn't the doxxing the problem then? It seems like the focus is in the wrong place. Don't we already have laws on the books to stop harrassement? Don't we have laws to stop from inciting violence? If we need to strenghen them then that's an opportunity for discussion. Do we need to talk about our free speech laws? I frankly think it's time to have that discussion, and not quite because of the reason you may think. Neither of those discussions is this discussion though, and that's my issue here. Facebook is (as another more eloquent commenter said) a megaphone. Why are we blaming the megaphone?
- underdunder 8y ago
  I totally agree. The fatanasy of a digital Jesus that would save us all and bring heaven to the internet should stop.
- omegaworks 8y ago
  >Isn't the doxxing the problem then? It seems like the focus is in the wrong place. Facebook is taking the stance that spaces (pages) that promote and spread this information must be protected. They are slow to take action against people (and their bot networks) that incite harassment. >Don't we already have laws on the books to stop harrassement? Don't we have laws to stop from inciting violence? Local police departments are not equipped to deal with internet harassment, even credible threats of violence. There are cross-jurisdictional restrictions on their ability to act.[1] >Why are we blaming the megaphone? Facebook is the entity that directly profits from the presence of these people on their platform. They optimize for engagement. If harassers keep your eyes on Facebook, then Facebook optimizes your feed to see more harassment. Hate-clicks are just as revenue generating for them as any other kind of click. 1. https://twitter.com/NoraReed/status/1019702132579037184 https://twitter.com/NoraReed/status/1019702132579037184

s73v3r_ 8y ago

Why should the onus be on those being harassed to leave? Why should the harassers get to win, when these people did absolutely nothing wrong?

patient_zero 8y ago
>Why should the harassers get to win... Well, I don't really see it as winning and losing. After all, you simply cannot win against crazy people. What's the old saying? About never getting in an argument with an idiot? My point I suppose (assuming I even have one) is why they would feel the need to stay, rather than just leaving. It didn't impact my life at all to delete my account, and I'm asking whether there were some development since that makes one NEED to stay. I know loads of people have accounts with FB, but the question I asked, and think they should be asking themselves is "why?"
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  "Well, I don't really see it as winning and losing." But that's not really a position that has basis in reality. To those doing the harassing, getting the people they target off of social media is, for them, a win. "My point I suppose (assuming I even have one) is why they would feel the need to stay, rather than just leaving." Because they want to use FB and social media like everyone else is able to? "It didn't impact my life at all to delete my account" I'm glad for you, but you're not everyone. "and I'm asking whether there were some development since that makes one NEED to stay" NEED doesn't come into it at all. If they want to continue to use the platform, they should be able to without dealing with that kind of harassment, plain and simple. "but the question I asked, and think they should be asking themselves is "why?"" And I think you should ask yourself why that question has any bearing on the situation. Why they should have to consider whether they can continue to do the same things that most other members of society get to do.
  - patient_zero 8y ago
    I get your point, people should be free from abuse. I agree. I am also asking something you cannot answer, namely "why do they need facebook?" Which is not even what they are saying in their letter to Zuck. That being said, you are coming off a bit aggressively. Perhaps I'm reading you wrong, but I'm asking a honest question and you are (it seems) just calling me selfish and thoughtless. These questions are not rhetorical, if that was unclear. Can you tell me please how you use facebook in your daily life personally and professionally? It may not have bearing on the greater discussion but I do want to know, as someone who hasn't used it in years.

dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago

> I just don't get the point of this letter. You probably haven't been a victim of such a mass-scale harassment. > Why is it so difficult to leave this particular social network? It doesn't matter that much whether they are using it or not, these folks will track them down and harass in all other ways.

gmoore 8y ago

Another thinly veiled 'blame the victim' view. Instead of holding a powerful entity responsible for its behavior we suggest that the victim simply "leave this...network".