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Somehow, I don't see this article getting a lot of traction here on HN. I'm certain most of us have good friends and colleagues here in the US on an H1B Visa; I

Somehow, I don't see this article getting a lot of traction here on HN. I'm certain most of us have good friends and colleagues here in the US on an H1B Visa; I'm equally certain most of us have seen and experienced the abuse of the system. H1B's stated purpose is "Specialty Occupation"s. A lot of these Visas are being used to bring in workers for very generic IT helpdesk jobs. There's still many that are granted for exceptional talents in the field of Information Technology and Computer Science, but there's also a large number granted to companies that are primarily outsourcers, whose appeal is not specialization but simply being cheap. It's been suggested many times on HN that the regulations on H1Bs be changed to make it a bidding process - Only bring over applicants who are being paid the most. I'm not sure I agree or disagree, but I absolutely think more careful scrutiny of what's considered a "Specialist Occupation" is a step that's reasonable within the current regulations. There's a lot of complaints of Fraud and Abuse related to the program that are also being addressed with more careful scrutiny.

User23 8y ago
If the H-1B statutes were enforced as written then the total number of applicants accepted each year would comfortably fit in a large conference room.
- mavelikara 8y ago
  Please explain why you think so.
  - bigcostooge 8y ago
    I’m not the poster, but I’ve worked with literally hundreds of H1B workers directly, and while some were ~decent developers, the majority were not. Even the decent developers had no special skills that would qualify them for an H1b visa, however. With a 0% rate of qualified H1b recipients in my own experience, I can imagine that the “conference room” statement would be true.
    - mavelikara 8y ago
      I am a hiring manager at an SV tech company. I have interviewed and hired many engineers on H-1B visa. They all, in my understanding, posses the required " theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor". The number of such hires definitely fill the biggest conference rooms I have seen. Also, when I attend reputable tech conferences, many speakers I meet are on H-1B. That being my experience, I don't think the claim made by OP is true. Evidently, we have different understanding of what constitutes specialized skills. Why is a good developer not considered to posses "specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor"?
      - megaman22 8y ago
        Because that should be table-stakes for the profession. And too many H1-Bs are just awful. I don't necessarily blame them individually, but it's a perverse suboptimal system. If I ever run my own business, I'm going to put a 300-800% price hike on any work where I have to interface with Tata or Cognizant, or ATT Global Services, or the other kinds of consulting bodyshops that currently employ the vast majority of H1-Bs. At least for non-repeat business. Find a decent team and giving them normal rates or better would make sense, but there are others you wouldn't touch with a thirty foot pole made of rolled hundred dollar bills. It is just not worth the headache dealing with that caliber of people, and the cultural impedance. Unless they are willing to pay through the nose.
        mavelikara 8y ago
        > Because that should be table-stakes for the profession. By your definition, most of the 736 players who played in FIFA 2018 world cup few weeks ago do not posses any special athletic skills - they merely posses skills that are table-stakes for their profession. Yet, most reasonable people would not hesitate to call those players elite athletes. What I am trying to point out is that H-1B is not about finding that outstanding developer. These are people who have a high level of skill in a specialized occupation. Edit: you expanded on you original one-liner with anecdote. I am quoting the one-liner I was reponding to here.
gaius 8y ago
whose appeal is not specialization but simply being cheap If there was genuinely a shortage of tech workers there would be no ageism (or any other sort of -ism) nor would there be these elaborate multi-day hoop-jumping interviews.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  Why? There is a legitimate reason for having a high hiring bar. Obviously this doesn’t make ageism or discrimination acceptable of course.
  - gaius 8y ago
    There is a legitimate reason for having a high hiring bar. The “bar” is not representative at all of the nature of the work is why. It’s artificially high in order to eliminate a glut of candidates early in the process. I remember when there was a genuine shortage of tech workers - the dotcom boom. Hiring and compensation reflected that there was high demand and competition to hire. Outside of a very few niches now, the economics (law of supply and demand) simply don’t show it.
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
      >Outside of a very few niches now, the economics (law of supply and demand) simply don’t show it. Undergrads (not me though) can make $225k out of school now easily, is that not showing it?
  - commandlinefan 8y ago
    If we were actually hard to come by, we wouldn't be crammed elbow-to-elbow in noisy open offices like herds of cattle.
- dmode 8y ago
  If there was such an abundance of talent, why does Google pay $125k for entry level SW jobs ? And why is SW engineering such a highly paid position ?

User23 8y ago

If the H-1B statutes were enforced as written then the total number of applicants accepted each year would comfortably fit in a large conference room.

mavelikara 8y ago
Please explain why you think so.
- bigcostooge 8y ago
  I’m not the poster, but I’ve worked with literally hundreds of H1B workers directly, and while some were ~decent developers, the majority were not. Even the decent developers had no special skills that would qualify them for an H1b visa, however. With a 0% rate of qualified H1b recipients in my own experience, I can imagine that the “conference room” statement would be true.
  - mavelikara 8y ago
    I am a hiring manager at an SV tech company. I have interviewed and hired many engineers on H-1B visa. They all, in my understanding, posses the required " theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor". The number of such hires definitely fill the biggest conference rooms I have seen. Also, when I attend reputable tech conferences, many speakers I meet are on H-1B. That being my experience, I don't think the claim made by OP is true. Evidently, we have different understanding of what constitutes specialized skills. Why is a good developer not considered to posses "specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor"?
    - megaman22 8y ago
      Because that should be table-stakes for the profession. And too many H1-Bs are just awful. I don't necessarily blame them individually, but it's a perverse suboptimal system. If I ever run my own business, I'm going to put a 300-800% price hike on any work where I have to interface with Tata or Cognizant, or ATT Global Services, or the other kinds of consulting bodyshops that currently employ the vast majority of H1-Bs. At least for non-repeat business. Find a decent team and giving them normal rates or better would make sense, but there are others you wouldn't touch with a thirty foot pole made of rolled hundred dollar bills. It is just not worth the headache dealing with that caliber of people, and the cultural impedance. Unless they are willing to pay through the nose.
      - mavelikara 8y ago
        > Because that should be table-stakes for the profession. By your definition, most of the 736 players who played in FIFA 2018 world cup few weeks ago do not posses any special athletic skills - they merely posses skills that are table-stakes for their profession. Yet, most reasonable people would not hesitate to call those players elite athletes. What I am trying to point out is that H-1B is not about finding that outstanding developer. These are people who have a high level of skill in a specialized occupation. Edit: you expanded on you original one-liner with anecdote. I am quoting the one-liner I was reponding to here.

gaius 8y ago

whose appeal is not specialization but simply being cheap If there was genuinely a shortage of tech workers there would be no ageism (or any other sort of -ism) nor would there be these elaborate multi-day hoop-jumping interviews.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
Why? There is a legitimate reason for having a high hiring bar. Obviously this doesn’t make ageism or discrimination acceptable of course.
- gaius 8y ago
  There is a legitimate reason for having a high hiring bar. The “bar” is not representative at all of the nature of the work is why. It’s artificially high in order to eliminate a glut of candidates early in the process. I remember when there was a genuine shortage of tech workers - the dotcom boom. Hiring and compensation reflected that there was high demand and competition to hire. Outside of a very few niches now, the economics (law of supply and demand) simply don’t show it.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    >Outside of a very few niches now, the economics (law of supply and demand) simply don’t show it. Undergrads (not me though) can make $225k out of school now easily, is that not showing it?
- commandlinefan 8y ago
  If we were actually hard to come by, we wouldn't be crammed elbow-to-elbow in noisy open offices like herds of cattle.
dmode 8y ago
If there was such an abundance of talent, why does Google pay $125k for entry level SW jobs ? And why is SW engineering such a highly paid position ?