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In the case of that company, they worked with finances and it makes me a 'risk'. Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesir

In the case of that company, they worked with finances and it makes me a 'risk'. Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. My bankruptcy also prevents me from ever having a security clearance again as I'm considered a security risk (blackmail, my mom worked at DoD before she had to retire via disability and one of her co-workers got fired when her debt shot up post divorce and it caused her clearance to get yanked). Nolo has an ok article about it covering both the security clearance and the issue I had https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/will-bankruptcy-affect-my-job-future-employment.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/will-bankruptcy-affe... >Private employers, however, aren’t constrained by a similar rule, and some people find that having a bankruptcy in their past comes back to haunt them—mainly when applying for jobs that require them to deal with money (bookkeeping, accounting, payroll, and so on). If you go look at a lot of traditional job applications when they are asking about prior military experience and criminal history they also usually ask something along the lines of "have you ever declared bankruptcy". A bankruptcy effectively makes you a 2nd class citizen in the eyes of many companies... which is funny because a quick google search shows me a little less than 1% of the US population files bankruptcy annually which means you have a statistically significant percentage of the population walking around with bankruptcies on their record, the only people that have it worse are those with criminal convictions (about 1 in 3 adults, shockingly) so I guess I'm somewhat lucky anyway.

mrweasel 8y ago
Wow, that's absolutely absurd. I essens what that company is saying is that their financial processes are so weak, that you alone could be a risk. I can understand not wanting to hire you as a CFO or investment advisor, but that's about it.
pc86 8y ago
> Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. I mean it's easy to categorize it this way but I think you're ignoring the actual risks for the company. Yes, bankruptcy is a completely legal and typically very useful legal mechanism for restructuring. There's nothing ethically or morally wrong with bankruptcy or even having multiple ones in your history depending on the circumstances. But more often than not, it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending. With few exceptions, bankruptcies are typically avoidable. To quote the word risk in the manner you did diminishes the real fact that you had a finance job and had recently shown that you unable to control your personal finances. With the litigious nature of the US, especially within the confines of employment law, it's safer for a company in that sector to outright ban employees with major financial issues than to investigate the root causes and make case-by-case judgments on whether a given bankruptcy was "okay." > My bankruptcy also prevents me from ever having a security clearance again as I'm considered a security risk (blackmail... This is an accurate and very reasonable concern. It's the whole reason why applicants for every sensitive job from local part-time police officer to CIA agent have their personal finances investigated. If someone has 1.5x their yearly salary in high interest debt it's going to be much easier for a malicious actor to control them.
- falcolas 8y ago
  > it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending In a world^w country where being sick can put you in complete and utter financial ruin, or where buying a house you can make payments on but whose value drops precipitously resulting in a seizure of the house, I call bullshit. There's many, many reasons in our world today that you might need to declare bankruptcy, and being unable to manage your finances is only one.
  - pc86 8y ago
    Without letting this devolve into the typical anti-US-healthcare-system circlejerk, medical debt is one of the few ways completely outside of ones control. While I'm sure there are a few, I can't think of another one that is entirely outside of the individual's control. > where buying a house you can make payments on but whose value drops precipitously resulting in a seizure of the house This is patently false. You can buy a house for $400k and if its value drops to $100k nothing changes for you unless you want to move, which is a choice. Nobody is going to take your house just because you're underwater on paper as long as you keep making payments.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  >But more often than not, it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending You know what home economics taught me in high school? How to sew a tennis racket cover and how to make a beaded lizard keychain/zipper pull. You know what it didn't teach? Balancing a check book, taxes, 19%+ interest rates on credit, emergency fund savings, how to deal with sudden unemployment, how to deal with sudden unexpected medical expenses. I was paying my debts monthly, barely, that wasn't good enough for one of the lenders and they sued me in small claims. I never got the summons (apparently quite common) and they were awarded default judgement of 35% of my gross income and had my waged garnished which forced me to file.
  - pc86 8y ago
    I don't think anyone will argue that the US public education system is teaching its students what it should be about personal finances and money management. It's a disgrace, frankly. > I was paying my debts monthly, barely, that wasn't good enough for one of the lenders and they sued me in small claims. I'm sorry but there is definitely information missing here. If you were making the full minimum payment you wouldn't be sued, ever. If you were paying less than the minimum then you weren't actually "paying your debts monthly." > I never got the summons (apparently quite common) I can't speak to how common something like this is but you do typically need to be served with the summons, or the plaintiff needs to show some sort of proof that you received the notice (e.g. a certified mail receipt or statement from a process server that you were indeed served). But I can say it's not the first time I've heard of someone being unaware of a court date so who knows.

mrweasel 8y ago

Wow, that's absolutely absurd. I essens what that company is saying is that their financial processes are so weak, that you alone could be a risk. I can understand not wanting to hire you as a CFO or investment advisor, but that's about it.

pc86 8y ago

> Apparently exercising protection that dates back to antiquity makes you undesirable. I mean it's easy to categorize it this way but I think you're ignoring the actual risks for the company. Yes, bankruptcy is a completely legal and typically very useful legal mechanism for restructuring. There's nothing ethically or morally wrong with bankruptcy or even having multiple ones in your history depending on the circumstances. But more often than not, it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending. With few exceptions, bankruptcies are typically avoidable. To quote the word risk in the manner you did diminishes the real fact that you had a finance job and had recently shown that you unable to control your personal finances. With the litigious nature of the US, especially within the confines of employment law, it's safer for a company in that sector to outright ban employees with major financial issues than to investigate the root causes and make case-by-case judgments on whether a given bankruptcy was "okay." > My bankruptcy also prevents me from ever having a security clearance again as I'm considered a security risk (blackmail... This is an accurate and very reasonable concern. It's the whole reason why applicants for every sensitive job from local part-time police officer to CIA agent have their personal finances investigated. If someone has 1.5x their yearly salary in high interest debt it's going to be much easier for a malicious actor to control them.

falcolas 8y ago
> it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending In a world^w country where being sick can put you in complete and utter financial ruin, or where buying a house you can make payments on but whose value drops precipitously resulting in a seizure of the house, I call bullshit. There's many, many reasons in our world today that you might need to declare bankruptcy, and being unable to manage your finances is only one.
- pc86 8y ago
  Without letting this devolve into the typical anti-US-healthcare-system circlejerk, medical debt is one of the few ways completely outside of ones control. While I'm sure there are a few, I can't think of another one that is entirely outside of the individual's control. > where buying a house you can make payments on but whose value drops precipitously resulting in a seizure of the house This is patently false. You can buy a house for $400k and if its value drops to $100k nothing changes for you unless you want to move, which is a choice. Nobody is going to take your house just because you're underwater on paper as long as you keep making payments.
ryanmercer 8y ago
>But more often than not, it shows an inability to manage ones finances and staying within a reasonable band of spending You know what home economics taught me in high school? How to sew a tennis racket cover and how to make a beaded lizard keychain/zipper pull. You know what it didn't teach? Balancing a check book, taxes, 19%+ interest rates on credit, emergency fund savings, how to deal with sudden unemployment, how to deal with sudden unexpected medical expenses. I was paying my debts monthly, barely, that wasn't good enough for one of the lenders and they sued me in small claims. I never got the summons (apparently quite common) and they were awarded default judgement of 35% of my gross income and had my waged garnished which forced me to file.
- pc86 8y ago
  I don't think anyone will argue that the US public education system is teaching its students what it should be about personal finances and money management. It's a disgrace, frankly. > I was paying my debts monthly, barely, that wasn't good enough for one of the lenders and they sued me in small claims. I'm sorry but there is definitely information missing here. If you were making the full minimum payment you wouldn't be sued, ever. If you were paying less than the minimum then you weren't actually "paying your debts monthly." > I never got the summons (apparently quite common) I can't speak to how common something like this is but you do typically need to be served with the summons, or the plaintiff needs to show some sort of proof that you received the notice (e.g. a certified mail receipt or statement from a process server that you were indeed served). But I can say it's not the first time I've heard of someone being unaware of a court date so who knows.