3 ms·

The article quote is simply a refutation of the meme that the iPad is a toy or consumption-only machine. Whether it can do everything someone might want a desk

by roc 16y ago

The article quote is simply a refutation of the meme that the iPad is a toy or consumption-only machine. Whether it can do everything someone might want a desk machine for is irrelevant. You're arguing against a claim no-one made.

kenjackson 16y ago
This was the post I was arguing against: "there's not much that most PC users actually do with their PC that they couldn't do with an iPad"." I pointed out a couple of things where the software isn't available. And another being a use scenario that is much less comfortable. I'm directly arguing an exact quote made by a poster.
- roc 16y ago
  That quote says "there's not much" and you responded with... not much. Popular as it is, PC gaming isn't something most PC users actually do. Flash is a better argument, but ultimately people don't do things with Flash. They do things that some sites use Flash to enable. Some of those activities are unavailable, but many are available via native clients and formats. So saying it doesn't do Flash serves as a helpful shorthand, but if most of the things most people use flash for are available in other ways, the actual impact still arguably falls in the range of "not much of it can't be done with an iPad". And the quote says nothing about relative levels of comfort or capability in doing PC tasks, so the multitasking scenarios still aren't relevant.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    I think that's a lot more than "not much", but if you want to play that game. How about this list. This is a list of things that a LOT of people do. Maybe not 50% of users but a very sizeable proportion. 1) Connect to a printer and print. 2) Get data from a USB key. 3) Can the iPad connect to AD domains? This I honestly don't know, but if it can't thats another big one. Not big for home use, but huge outside the home. 4) Upload pictures, e.g., connect a camera to it and upload pictures to the device. A super common home use, less common in the business world. 5) Host all of my media content. Even my mom has about 100GB of media content on her laptop now. And lets be clear... a WinMo 5.0 device can do a lot of what most users do on a PC. It can read and write Word and Excel docs. You can check email, browse the web, and even make calls. Yet its absurd to say that the Treo 700 is virtually a PC replacement. The thing that is interesting about PCs is the long tail. Its not that there are just four things that everyone does (word processing, email, web, pictures). Its that I edit professional quality HD video on my computer and do app development. He plays first person shooters. They use it for their LOB app. He uses it for their video kiosk app. She uses it to access and distribute business intelligence dashboards. He uses it to do photo editing. They use it to monitor various sensors that are hooked up. And the comfort thing which you dismiss is pretty darn important too. The Windows 7 slates can do EVERYTHING a PC does. It just does most of them a LOT worse. Simply doing things isn't really the same as "doing things". But if you're happy with your iPad, more power to you. I'll wait to the 7" comes out and I'll use it largely as an ebook reader. It just doesn't do what I need it to do, and it doesn't do what virtually anyone I know needs a laptop to do. But clearly there are some people who exist for which their computing needs are sufficiently satisfied by such a device.
    - roc 16y ago
      > "It just doesn't do what I need it to do" Yet you're trying to use your personal needs to counter claims about whether the bulk of average, non-technical people, are going to run into roadblocks. > "Simply doing things isn't really the same as "doing things"" Clearly, you need to try one out. The iPad is orders of magnitude more useful and effective than Windows slates. e.g. both can do photo editing and no-one's going to ask either to run photoshop, but regular people will get far more done, far more easily, with an iPad. It not only does these things, it does them usably well. As to your list: 1. Printing (unfortunately) will happen shortly. 2. USB keys are a notable bummer, but like with Flash, USB is a means to an end. It's horribly popular, so it is a pain point, but how often are regular people swapping USB sticks? In my experience, when you get an iOS device, you get a dropbox account shortly after. (Yes, even my mother. She loves Dropbox.) 3. People don't connect to domains. 4. Yeah, it connects to cameras. 5. Do people ask every device to host all of their media content? Most iPods aren't holding all of their owner's media. Most netbooks aren't holding all of their owner's media. That's never been much of a barrier. As long as a considerable swath can be held locally and the rest is accessible, regular people apparently couldn't care less.
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        I love how you change the argument. But in any case. First, I have tried one. In fact I owned one. If you go back far enough in HN I even talk about it. I generally liked it, but found it too heavy. I'm waiting for the 7" version. With that said, I don't think it can do most of what a PC can do, but I don't think that's its goal either. And I never claimed that a Win7 slate is more effective than the iPad. In fact it was you who claimed that effectivness wasn't the metric being discussed, but purely capability. 1) So printing isn't there. 2) OK, so now an alternative is something that is slower, requires an account, and only really works at all with an internet connection. 3) I'm not even sure what that means. There are probably more AD users than there are owneers of all iOS devices combined. Certainly at least iPads. If you use your PC for work there is a very good chance your on a domain. 5) This isn't about "every device".... it's about PCs. Most people don't even claim netbooks are real PC replacements. They're meant to be a portable secondary device. No one I know has a netbook as their primary box. It just seems that many iPad owners contort themselves into pretzels to prove that the iPad is more powerful than any other device at any price point ever conceived. It's simply not. I realize you iPad may have fixed your paralysis, but you still can't print from it.

by roc 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

This was the post I was arguing against: "there's not much that most PC users actually do with their PC that they couldn't do with an iPad"." I pointed out a couple of things where the software isn't available. And another being a use scenario that is much less comfortable. I'm directly arguing an exact quote made by a poster.

roc 16y ago
That quote says "there's not much" and you responded with... not much. Popular as it is, PC gaming isn't something most PC users actually do. Flash is a better argument, but ultimately people don't do things with Flash. They do things that some sites use Flash to enable. Some of those activities are unavailable, but many are available via native clients and formats. So saying it doesn't do Flash serves as a helpful shorthand, but if most of the things most people use flash for are available in other ways, the actual impact still arguably falls in the range of "not much of it can't be done with an iPad". And the quote says nothing about relative levels of comfort or capability in doing PC tasks, so the multitasking scenarios still aren't relevant.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  I think that's a lot more than "not much", but if you want to play that game. How about this list. This is a list of things that a LOT of people do. Maybe not 50% of users but a very sizeable proportion. 1) Connect to a printer and print. 2) Get data from a USB key. 3) Can the iPad connect to AD domains? This I honestly don't know, but if it can't thats another big one. Not big for home use, but huge outside the home. 4) Upload pictures, e.g., connect a camera to it and upload pictures to the device. A super common home use, less common in the business world. 5) Host all of my media content. Even my mom has about 100GB of media content on her laptop now. And lets be clear... a WinMo 5.0 device can do a lot of what most users do on a PC. It can read and write Word and Excel docs. You can check email, browse the web, and even make calls. Yet its absurd to say that the Treo 700 is virtually a PC replacement. The thing that is interesting about PCs is the long tail. Its not that there are just four things that everyone does (word processing, email, web, pictures). Its that I edit professional quality HD video on my computer and do app development. He plays first person shooters. They use it for their LOB app. He uses it for their video kiosk app. She uses it to access and distribute business intelligence dashboards. He uses it to do photo editing. They use it to monitor various sensors that are hooked up. And the comfort thing which you dismiss is pretty darn important too. The Windows 7 slates can do EVERYTHING a PC does. It just does most of them a LOT worse. Simply doing things isn't really the same as "doing things". But if you're happy with your iPad, more power to you. I'll wait to the 7" comes out and I'll use it largely as an ebook reader. It just doesn't do what I need it to do, and it doesn't do what virtually anyone I know needs a laptop to do. But clearly there are some people who exist for which their computing needs are sufficiently satisfied by such a device.
  - roc 16y ago
    > "It just doesn't do what I need it to do" Yet you're trying to use your personal needs to counter claims about whether the bulk of average, non-technical people, are going to run into roadblocks. > "Simply doing things isn't really the same as "doing things"" Clearly, you need to try one out. The iPad is orders of magnitude more useful and effective than Windows slates. e.g. both can do photo editing and no-one's going to ask either to run photoshop, but regular people will get far more done, far more easily, with an iPad. It not only does these things, it does them usably well. As to your list: 1. Printing (unfortunately) will happen shortly. 2. USB keys are a notable bummer, but like with Flash, USB is a means to an end. It's horribly popular, so it is a pain point, but how often are regular people swapping USB sticks? In my experience, when you get an iOS device, you get a dropbox account shortly after. (Yes, even my mother. She loves Dropbox.) 3. People don't connect to domains. 4. Yeah, it connects to cameras. 5. Do people ask every device to host all of their media content? Most iPods aren't holding all of their owner's media. Most netbooks aren't holding all of their owner's media. That's never been much of a barrier. As long as a considerable swath can be held locally and the rest is accessible, regular people apparently couldn't care less.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      I love how you change the argument. But in any case. First, I have tried one. In fact I owned one. If you go back far enough in HN I even talk about it. I generally liked it, but found it too heavy. I'm waiting for the 7" version. With that said, I don't think it can do most of what a PC can do, but I don't think that's its goal either. And I never claimed that a Win7 slate is more effective than the iPad. In fact it was you who claimed that effectivness wasn't the metric being discussed, but purely capability. 1) So printing isn't there. 2) OK, so now an alternative is something that is slower, requires an account, and only really works at all with an internet connection. 3) I'm not even sure what that means. There are probably more AD users than there are owneers of all iOS devices combined. Certainly at least iPads. If you use your PC for work there is a very good chance your on a domain. 5) This isn't about "every device".... it's about PCs. Most people don't even claim netbooks are real PC replacements. They're meant to be a portable secondary device. No one I know has a netbook as their primary box. It just seems that many iPad owners contort themselves into pretzels to prove that the iPad is more powerful than any other device at any price point ever conceived. It's simply not. I realize you iPad may have fixed your paralysis, but you still can't print from it.