8 ms·

I can swim, so I'm not overly concerned. I've floated on some questionable conveyances that needed quite a lot of duck tape to make them hold water chasing trou

I can swim, so I'm not overly concerned. I've floated on some questionable conveyances that needed quite a lot of duck tape to make them hold water chasing trout. Then again, I usually don't bother fishing when there are near hurricane winds forecast. Although I have gone trawling across a pond with two anchors down on multiple occasions...

learc83 8y ago
Whether you can swim or not isn't really the issue. The issue is that they are retrofitted with enclosures that make it difficult to escape, and once they start taking on water they can sink in seconds.
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  Can you provide an image? Every image I've been able to find has enormous and open windows that seem specifically enabled to allow people to escape outside them in an emergency. I've attached a few random images below. http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/duck_boat-e1462277275969.jpg http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/du... http://www.completingmybucketlist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/pressphotos-dsc_2231.jpg http://www.completingmybucketlist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2... https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/17877/image.jpg https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/17877/image.j... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/LondonDuckWater.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/LondonDu... https://www.massvacation.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Boston-Duck-Boat.jpg https://www.massvacation.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11... https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50295385/5470555241_ce884c0d86_b.0.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50295385/...
  - charleslmunger 8y ago
    I think it's a bit much to ask a group of tourists that includes children, the elderly, possibly the disabled, all not wearing life jackets, to evacuate out the windows into open water as the ceiling comes down on them. That's not something you can reasonably expect to happen in a matter of seconds.
    - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
      Sure, but that's not the issue right? These things have apparently been running for decades and are hugely popular in some areas. This article seems to have tried to drag up every single incident it could that involved them, even including random normal traffic collisions. But relative to length and frequency of usage, there weren't many incidents. Put another way these things seem to be incredibly safe on average, but certainly when something goes wrong it's going to be make for good headlines because it's so awful. But beyond that, it seems like even when something does go wrong you certainly have good chances if you're a decent swimmer. Though perhaps this incident would be an exception, it looks like they were out in the water during a serious storm - which is completely idiotic in any sort of small water boat.
      - learc83 8y ago
        Read the NTSB report from 1999. They recommend the canopies be removed because the boats can sink in as little as 15 seconds. They ride very low in the water and there are multiple reports of canopies pulling people under. Most of them have windows or plastic sheeting that can (and was in the Missouri case) be closed in the case of rain or cold weather. The coast guard also recommends not wearing life jackets while inside because in one documented inncident people wearing life jackets floated to the top and got stuck under the canopy.
        TangoTrotFox 8y ago
        You need to consider rates for things. "Multiple reports" means absolutely nothing when you're talking about something that's been running for decades for one can only imagine how many total millions of hours or whatever other metric you want to use. For instance you can find that thousands of people have been killed because of seat belts or air bags. But these things don't really matter because the rate of incidence is extremely low. Perhaps also a bad example on my part as they also save lives when they work, but you can pick practically anything -- given a large enough sample, you'll find people manage to die to just about everything. My favorite is Isadora Duncan - a celebrity, no less! So the key question is what is the incident rate here? Given the most condemning data we have is "multiple reports" over 2 decades, that sounds like a pretty good baseline for 'extremely safe.' ---- Also, can you please provide evidence of even just a single duck boat with windows? I just tried pretty hard to find even a single one, and failed. But yeah, velcro or drop sheets are of course part of the system. And again those are designed to be able to be rapidly removed.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    In the video still of the duck that sank (not one from some other place), you can see that there is at least some obstruction (it may just be plastic sheet though): https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/us/missouri-duck-boat-investigation/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/us/missouri-duck-boat-investi...

learc83 8y ago

Whether you can swim or not isn't really the issue. The issue is that they are retrofitted with enclosures that make it difficult to escape, and once they start taking on water they can sink in seconds.

TangoTrotFox 8y ago
Can you provide an image? Every image I've been able to find has enormous and open windows that seem specifically enabled to allow people to escape outside them in an emergency. I've attached a few random images below. http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/duck_boat-e1462277275969.jpg http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/du... http://www.completingmybucketlist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/pressphotos-dsc_2231.jpg http://www.completingmybucketlist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2... https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/17877/image.jpg https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/17877/image.j... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/LondonDuckWater.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/LondonDu... https://www.massvacation.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Boston-Duck-Boat.jpg https://www.massvacation.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11... https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50295385/5470555241_ce884c0d86_b.0.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/50295385/...
- charleslmunger 8y ago
  I think it's a bit much to ask a group of tourists that includes children, the elderly, possibly the disabled, all not wearing life jackets, to evacuate out the windows into open water as the ceiling comes down on them. That's not something you can reasonably expect to happen in a matter of seconds.
  - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
    Sure, but that's not the issue right? These things have apparently been running for decades and are hugely popular in some areas. This article seems to have tried to drag up every single incident it could that involved them, even including random normal traffic collisions. But relative to length and frequency of usage, there weren't many incidents. Put another way these things seem to be incredibly safe on average, but certainly when something goes wrong it's going to be make for good headlines because it's so awful. But beyond that, it seems like even when something does go wrong you certainly have good chances if you're a decent swimmer. Though perhaps this incident would be an exception, it looks like they were out in the water during a serious storm - which is completely idiotic in any sort of small water boat.
    - learc83 8y ago
      Read the NTSB report from 1999. They recommend the canopies be removed because the boats can sink in as little as 15 seconds. They ride very low in the water and there are multiple reports of canopies pulling people under. Most of them have windows or plastic sheeting that can (and was in the Missouri case) be closed in the case of rain or cold weather. The coast guard also recommends not wearing life jackets while inside because in one documented inncident people wearing life jackets floated to the top and got stuck under the canopy.
      - TangoTrotFox 8y ago
        You need to consider rates for things. "Multiple reports" means absolutely nothing when you're talking about something that's been running for decades for one can only imagine how many total millions of hours or whatever other metric you want to use. For instance you can find that thousands of people have been killed because of seat belts or air bags. But these things don't really matter because the rate of incidence is extremely low. Perhaps also a bad example on my part as they also save lives when they work, but you can pick practically anything -- given a large enough sample, you'll find people manage to die to just about everything. My favorite is Isadora Duncan - a celebrity, no less! So the key question is what is the incident rate here? Given the most condemning data we have is "multiple reports" over 2 decades, that sounds like a pretty good baseline for 'extremely safe.' ---- Also, can you please provide evidence of even just a single duck boat with windows? I just tried pretty hard to find even a single one, and failed. But yeah, velcro or drop sheets are of course part of the system. And again those are designed to be able to be rapidly removed.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  In the video still of the duck that sank (not one from some other place), you can see that there is at least some obstruction (it may just be plastic sheet though): https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/us/missouri-duck-boat-investigation/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/us/missouri-duck-boat-investi...