6 ms·

God forbid I use a straw, though.

gfo 8y ago
Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? It's a step forward, a small one at that, but it's progress. I don't understand those complaining - they usually fall back to people with disabilities, and yet establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks.
- jannyfer 8y ago
  I don't know if the parent comment was complaining of inconvenience. Straws are a trivial step forward, and I don't think we shouldn't feel better because of it and think we've done something meaningful. Straw bans are a particularly easy topic to make fun of, because of some internet analysis that Starbucks' solution uses more plastic than using straws.
  - zaroth 8y ago
    It was “some Internet analysis” — by a 9 year old apparently? — that got the ball rolling on this latest legislative fleecing. Banning straws are a non-trivial step backwards which will lead to more pollution IMO. It’s a mockery of real steps which could be taken that would have orders of magnitude more effect on actual pollution levels. If you think banning straws are an actual benefit, I think you’ve left science behind and moved on to politics.
- ksenzee 8y ago
  > establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks Not everywhere, they won't. Santa Barbara just passed a straw ban without any exceptions for disabled people who actually need plastic straws. In other places, it's still legal for restaurants to keep straws around for those who need them, but the restaurants don't all know that. From what I can tell, reading what straw-using disabled people have to say about this, it's as frustrating for them as if there were suddenly a ban on toilet paper in public restrooms. They absolutely need this disposable item, and they have never needed to carry their own before, or ask about it in advance. Now all of a sudden they're stuck having to be super-prepared at all times they're out in public, or they risk not being able to meet a basic bodily need.
  - jbob2000 8y ago
    How hard is it to carry a metal straw with you? You hear news about the ban, and you put a couple plastic ones in your bag until the metal one from amazon arrives. Why are people so helpless? Jesus christ, it takes half a second to figure out this solution for yourself.
    - ksenzee 8y ago
      How hard is it to carry some TP with you? NBD, right? So you wouldn't mind having to take your own with you everywhere you go? > Why are people so helpless? I... you are literally talking about disabled people. A decent society should have some care for the needs of these people, and not ignore them when they tell us what is important to them.
      - jbob2000 8y ago
        Toilet paper and drinking straws are not equivalent. TP is biodegradable and EVERYBODY needs it. If stores were to stop carrying TP, then everyone would need to carry it around and that's silly. Disabled people aren't helpless, they generally will do everything they can up until their disability stops them. I'm really struggling to think of a disability where someone would be prevented from putting a straw on their persons.
        ksenzee 8y ago
        Don't listen to me on this, listen to actual disabled people: https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/17586742/plastic-straw-ban-disabilities https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/17586742/plastic-straw-ban-d...
        jbob2000 8y ago
        I read your article, thanks for sharing. Just because she is disabled doesn’t mean she can’t change too. I understand that disability makes change difficult, but I think these issues are important enough that the struggle to change is worth it. There are solutions to her problems, she just doesn’t want to change. The solutions she presents are regressive (“keep plastic straws behind the counter”) or dismissive (“don’t take away MY straws, take away someone else’s plastic”). I understand and I sympathize but I want to reduce plastic usage more than I want her to maintain her drinking strategy.
- henvic 8y ago
  How about if I'd rather drink acid drinks like Coke (when I do) without damaging my teeth? What about my freedom of choosing whether I'd use straws or not?
  - foepys 8y ago
    Please explain to me how you can drink without the liquid touching your teeth. Do you stick the straw directly down your throat?
    - henvic 8y ago
      uh? I minimize the contact to my teeth, I guess?
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    Afaik, Acid damage to teeth is mostly from long term effects of acid produced by bacteria on the teeth, not acidic liquids that transit through the mouth. In any case, disposable plastic straw bans do not affect your freedom of choosing whether you use a straw or not.
- Alupis 8y ago
  It's not all good banning straws - Starbucks, for one, is finding out it uses more plastic with their new lids[1][2][3][4]. Sure, they're more recyclable, but a big part of the problem is many people don't throw their Starbucks cup in the recycle bin as it is! So, more plastic is being manufactured and used, and maybe some of it will be recycled... not such a clear cut win after all... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/23/starbucks-straws-ban-2020-environment https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/23/starbucks-s... [2] https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/12/starbucks-straw-ban-will-see-the-company https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/12/starbucks-straw-ban-will-... [3] https://www.thekitchn.com/starbucks-no-straws-new-lids-more-plastic-260617 https://www.thekitchn.com/starbucks-no-straws-new-lids-more-... [4] https://www.vox.com/2018/6/25/17488336/starbucks-plastic-straw-ban-ocean-pollution https://www.vox.com/2018/6/25/17488336/starbucks-plastic-str...
- Spooky23 8y ago
  Explain the benefit.
  - gfo 8y ago
    Straws are too small to be processed by recycling facilities. They just get tossed. Even if the Starbucks lids are larger, they can be recycled because they can be caught by the recyclers.
- stubish 8y ago
  Leptospirosis is the reason people are trained from childhood to require drinking straws in many parts of Asia. Rats piss on bottles and cans, and the bacteria their urine contains kept alive due to the ice used to keep them cold. So if you refuse the straw while on holiday, remember it is flu like symptoms with a high chance of death.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- throwaway427 8y ago
  > Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? Simple, I like using straws. Now I can't get one. It's not a small step forward, it's a minuscule step forward. Nothing significant has changed except peoples silly image of themselves.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Why does it need to be inconvenience, why not just preference? The detrimental effects of straw usage in the US are extremely minimal. We are basically going through a stage where we ban all straws in the country because of a sad photo of a turtle from Costa Rica.
- zaroth 8y ago
  > Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? Do you have young children? If you do, you know very well the inconvenience of not having straws. How about know anyone with facial nerve paralysis like Bells Palsy where they need a straw to drink without spilling liquid all over themselves?! Carrying your own straws won’t help if the lid isn’t designed to take one. The straw ban is just more faux outrage virtue signaling bullshit which makes people think they are doing something that is helping, so that when it comes to actually doing something worthwhile they don’t bother because — yah! No more straws! Sometimes I am terribly disappointed in the way these movements develop, percolate through false narratives, fake stats, and outright lies, and then when exposed as grandstanding bullshit the argument shifts to; but at least it’s something? Actually, the truth? It’s not something. It’s a step backwards (see Starbucks). It’s draining, it’s inconvenient, and it saps goodwill from a lot of people who really would be willing to make meaningful changes... but instead we’re out there banning straws and banning serving water at restaurants without having to ask. Sigh.... </rant>
Steltek 8y ago
Should modern countries stop making improvements until the developing ones catch up? We still consume far more than those countries, meaning how we manage resources can cause large swings.
- lainga 8y ago
  Correct - for instance, we could have diverted all the resources we used to ban straws into educational anti-waste programs in the biggest offender countries.

gfo 8y ago

Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? It's a step forward, a small one at that, but it's progress. I don't understand those complaining - they usually fall back to people with disabilities, and yet establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks.

jannyfer 8y ago
I don't know if the parent comment was complaining of inconvenience. Straws are a trivial step forward, and I don't think we shouldn't feel better because of it and think we've done something meaningful. Straw bans are a particularly easy topic to make fun of, because of some internet analysis that Starbucks' solution uses more plastic than using straws.
- zaroth 8y ago
  It was “some Internet analysis” — by a 9 year old apparently? — that got the ball rolling on this latest legislative fleecing. Banning straws are a non-trivial step backwards which will lead to more pollution IMO. It’s a mockery of real steps which could be taken that would have orders of magnitude more effect on actual pollution levels. If you think banning straws are an actual benefit, I think you’ve left science behind and moved on to politics.
ksenzee 8y ago
> establishments will still have straws on-hand for those folks Not everywhere, they won't. Santa Barbara just passed a straw ban without any exceptions for disabled people who actually need plastic straws. In other places, it's still legal for restaurants to keep straws around for those who need them, but the restaurants don't all know that. From what I can tell, reading what straw-using disabled people have to say about this, it's as frustrating for them as if there were suddenly a ban on toilet paper in public restrooms. They absolutely need this disposable item, and they have never needed to carry their own before, or ask about it in advance. Now all of a sudden they're stuck having to be super-prepared at all times they're out in public, or they risk not being able to meet a basic bodily need.
- jbob2000 8y ago
  How hard is it to carry a metal straw with you? You hear news about the ban, and you put a couple plastic ones in your bag until the metal one from amazon arrives. Why are people so helpless? Jesus christ, it takes half a second to figure out this solution for yourself.
  - ksenzee 8y ago
    How hard is it to carry some TP with you? NBD, right? So you wouldn't mind having to take your own with you everywhere you go? > Why are people so helpless? I... you are literally talking about disabled people. A decent society should have some care for the needs of these people, and not ignore them when they tell us what is important to them.
    - jbob2000 8y ago
      Toilet paper and drinking straws are not equivalent. TP is biodegradable and EVERYBODY needs it. If stores were to stop carrying TP, then everyone would need to carry it around and that's silly. Disabled people aren't helpless, they generally will do everything they can up until their disability stops them. I'm really struggling to think of a disability where someone would be prevented from putting a straw on their persons.
      - ksenzee 8y ago
        Don't listen to me on this, listen to actual disabled people: https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/17586742/plastic-straw-ban-disabilities https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/17586742/plastic-straw-ban-d...
        jbob2000 8y ago
        I read your article, thanks for sharing. Just because she is disabled doesn’t mean she can’t change too. I understand that disability makes change difficult, but I think these issues are important enough that the struggle to change is worth it. There are solutions to her problems, she just doesn’t want to change. The solutions she presents are regressive (“keep plastic straws behind the counter”) or dismissive (“don’t take away MY straws, take away someone else’s plastic”). I understand and I sympathize but I want to reduce plastic usage more than I want her to maintain her drinking strategy.
henvic 8y ago
How about if I'd rather drink acid drinks like Coke (when I do) without damaging my teeth? What about my freedom of choosing whether I'd use straws or not?
- foepys 8y ago
  Please explain to me how you can drink without the liquid touching your teeth. Do you stick the straw directly down your throat?
  - henvic 8y ago
    uh? I minimize the contact to my teeth, I guess?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  Afaik, Acid damage to teeth is mostly from long term effects of acid produced by bacteria on the teeth, not acidic liquids that transit through the mouth. In any case, disposable plastic straw bans do not affect your freedom of choosing whether you use a straw or not.
Alupis 8y ago
It's not all good banning straws - Starbucks, for one, is finding out it uses more plastic with their new lids[1][2][3][4]. Sure, they're more recyclable, but a big part of the problem is many people don't throw their Starbucks cup in the recycle bin as it is! So, more plastic is being manufactured and used, and maybe some of it will be recycled... not such a clear cut win after all... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/23/starbucks-straws-ban-2020-environment https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/23/starbucks-s... [2] https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/12/starbucks-straw-ban-will-see-the-company https://reason.com/blog/2018/07/12/starbucks-straw-ban-will-... [3] https://www.thekitchn.com/starbucks-no-straws-new-lids-more-plastic-260617 https://www.thekitchn.com/starbucks-no-straws-new-lids-more-... [4] https://www.vox.com/2018/6/25/17488336/starbucks-plastic-straw-ban-ocean-pollution https://www.vox.com/2018/6/25/17488336/starbucks-plastic-str...
Spooky23 8y ago
Explain the benefit.
- gfo 8y ago
  Straws are too small to be processed by recycling facilities. They just get tossed. Even if the Starbucks lids are larger, they can be recycled because they can be caught by the recyclers.
stubish 8y ago
Leptospirosis is the reason people are trained from childhood to require drinking straws in many parts of Asia. Rats piss on bottles and cans, and the bacteria their urine contains kept alive due to the ice used to keep them cold. So if you refuse the straw while on holiday, remember it is flu like symptoms with a high chance of death.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
throwaway427 8y ago
> Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? Simple, I like using straws. Now I can't get one. It's not a small step forward, it's a minuscule step forward. Nothing significant has changed except peoples silly image of themselves.
oh_sigh 8y ago
Why does it need to be inconvenience, why not just preference? The detrimental effects of straw usage in the US are extremely minimal. We are basically going through a stage where we ban all straws in the country because of a sad photo of a turtle from Costa Rica.
zaroth 8y ago
> Explain the inconvenience you're experiencing because you can't get a straw? Do you have young children? If you do, you know very well the inconvenience of not having straws. How about know anyone with facial nerve paralysis like Bells Palsy where they need a straw to drink without spilling liquid all over themselves?! Carrying your own straws won’t help if the lid isn’t designed to take one. The straw ban is just more faux outrage virtue signaling bullshit which makes people think they are doing something that is helping, so that when it comes to actually doing something worthwhile they don’t bother because — yah! No more straws! Sometimes I am terribly disappointed in the way these movements develop, percolate through false narratives, fake stats, and outright lies, and then when exposed as grandstanding bullshit the argument shifts to; but at least it’s something? Actually, the truth? It’s not something. It’s a step backwards (see Starbucks). It’s draining, it’s inconvenient, and it saps goodwill from a lot of people who really would be willing to make meaningful changes... but instead we’re out there banning straws and banning serving water at restaurants without having to ask. Sigh.... </rant>

Steltek 8y ago

Should modern countries stop making improvements until the developing ones catch up? We still consume far more than those countries, meaning how we manage resources can cause large swings.

lainga 8y ago
Correct - for instance, we could have diverted all the resources we used to ban straws into educational anti-waste programs in the biggest offender countries.