5 ms·

There is a slightly different way to interpret that. Some students, despite being in your classroom, are really being homeschooled. For example, my wife and I

by burfog 8y ago

There is a slightly different way to interpret that. Some students, despite being in your classroom, are really being homeschooled. For example, my wife and I both got extra assignments from our parents. The parents aren't just helping. The parents are teaching. You aren't trusted to teach. Other students have parents that trust you to teach. Your job is to teach, and these parents expect you to do it. In theory, they are correct.

fosco 8y ago
I find this perspective interesting and I think this discussion needs to be taken further as I think it is unclear on both sides what the final expectations are to be upon completion of class/grade. that being said, I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. I think that in most public schools (the one I went to) some parenting needs to be executed by teachers otherwise a small handful of kids could derail any teaching getting done in the first place.
- ergothus 8y ago
  The "teachers shouldn't parent; parents stopped parenting" lesson is one I've heard from more than a few. What if teachers ALWAYS "parented", and as societies grow more tolerant and diverse this obviously doesn't scale (parents disagree with teachers on what should be taught). Thus we decide on this image of teachers giving knowledge and means of learning, while parents give morals and social structures. But has this image every existed in practice? How do we know it is even achievable? A child is learning from EVERYTHING. Is it truly reasonable to expect that teachers aren't "parenting"? Even if they expressly attempt to focus on intellectual pursuits only, that is just showing a different set of parenting lessons (potentially about lack of accountability, or the division of social mores from everything else). Likewise, if the teachers have turned to this absent form of parenting, are we correct in assuming that other parents aren't doing their "jobs"? (After all, it's never MY kid that isn't getting parenting, it's everyone else's). I don't have solutions or suggestions, but I want to raise the idea that maybe it's not "who" is or is not parenting, because everyone is, all the time, even if trying NOT to "parent". If so, then simply trying harder to ensuring parenting only happens from parents, and DOES happen from them, is doomed to failure, incompatible with the operating of developing minds?
  - fosco 8y ago
    this is an interesting point and I think is more valid than many teachers (and adults of all flavors) want to admit due to not wanting to accept the enormous responsibility, thanks for sharing!
  - fatnoah 8y ago
    >A child is learning from EVERYTHING. Is it truly reasonable to expect that teachers aren't "parenting"? This is precisely why, as a non-religious parent, I actually appreciated attending a Catholic school and sent my son to a non-denominational Christian school. It wasn't about religion, but it was about being in an environment where elements of characters were also emphasized.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. If you are an adult (or even the responsible older child), and you are supervising one or more children when their parents aren't present, you have to do the parenting side of things. It's not optional. Like, literally not optional, not merely morally not optional—if you are in that position you are standing in the place of a parent, whether you intend to be or not, and whether you do it well or not.
- grkvlt 8y ago
  > teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side Isn't this exactly what teachers must do, by law? This is what the term 'in loco parentis'[0] means - they are acting as parental substitutes. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis
  - Viliam1234 8y ago
    Parenting is more difficult for a teacher than for a parent, because: - the parent has 1 or 2 or 3 kids, the teacher has 20 or 30 at the same time; - the parent spends plenty of time with kids, the teacher spends 45 minutes, and that's supposed to include teaching and examining; - the parent knows the child for years, the teacher may meet the teenager for the first time; - the parent can use a wild scale of rewards and punishment, the teacher... pretty much nothing, other than verbal feedback. So you can see it is quite unrealistic to expect the teacher to do the same amount of parenting as the parents are supposed to do. (By the way, in my experience the best behaving kids typically have at least one parent a teacher. I suppose it is because that parent has no illusions about how much parenting a school can do, and therefore does not try to outsource parenting to the school.)
privacypoller 8y ago
Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but I'm in Canada where we generally have good teachers. The problem we're experiencing is a curriculum that we feel is becoming easier over time and shifting away from core fundamentals. Teachers are powerless to oppose or address this, regardless of how they personally feel or want to teach. Should my 10-yr-old learn coping strategies for anxiety? absolutely, but she should also be learning some Canadian and World geography, be able to multiply numbers beyond 8x8, practice word and logic problems and understand that computers are not just cell phones and ipad applications. If we relied solely on the public education system it would be questionable if any of these were covered.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- afarrell 8y ago
  I notice that The things you list are things that can learn online from youtube and video games. - Geography Now: https://youtu.be/DxxZOsfsIUM https://youtu.be/DxxZOsfsIUM - Crash Course Computer Science: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNlUrzyH5r6jN9ulIgZBpdo https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNlUrzyH5r6... - 6.004 EdX: https://www.edx.org/course/computation-structures-part-1-digital-mitx-6-004-1x-0 https://www.edx.org/course/computation-structures-part-1-dig... - Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Sid Meyer’s Pirates, Railroad Tycoon, bunches of kids games teach geography or arithmetic Whereas there isn’t really a good digital experience you can build to teach brain-management skills... or is there?
  - indigochill 8y ago
    One of Coursera's top courses is a course on learning how to learn, which is really about learning the balance of self-discipline (both how to do it and why it works). It works not just for learning, but also for time management and other things: https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn Don't know about online courses for things like emotional health, but I see no reason there couldn't be.
loco5niner 8y ago
I wouldn't trust every teacher to teach well. The simple fact is, there are good teachers and there are bad teachers. Ultimately, it's the parents job to make sure kids are brought up well. That means helping teach during some years and stepping back more in some years. Parent involvement is a must.
- gowld 8y ago
  Sometimes parents are unable or unwilling to bring up their kids well. What should happen to those kids?
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    I don't see how parents failing to do their job changes what I said. But to answer your unrelated question: Of course, responsible adults, which includes teachers, should help them as well as they can. Unfortunately, try as they might, only parents can do a parents job. Really, it comes down to providing a good family to as many kids as possible. Divorce, broken families, single parent homes, foster care, etc... They all fall short of what a good solid Mom/Dad home (with a good relationship between Mom and Dad) can provide a kid. That's where we should be focusing. Oh, and while I'm at it: World Peace. *edit - Unfortunately, we can't do anything about people dying or getting sick. But short of that, people really need to be responsible about the situation they are in when they bring kids into the world. And then they need to take care of those kids.

by burfog 8y ago

fosco 8y ago

I find this perspective interesting and I think this discussion needs to be taken further as I think it is unclear on both sides what the final expectations are to be upon completion of class/grade. that being said, I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. I think that in most public schools (the one I went to) some parenting needs to be executed by teachers otherwise a small handful of kids could derail any teaching getting done in the first place.

ergothus 8y ago
The "teachers shouldn't parent; parents stopped parenting" lesson is one I've heard from more than a few. What if teachers ALWAYS "parented", and as societies grow more tolerant and diverse this obviously doesn't scale (parents disagree with teachers on what should be taught). Thus we decide on this image of teachers giving knowledge and means of learning, while parents give morals and social structures. But has this image every existed in practice? How do we know it is even achievable? A child is learning from EVERYTHING. Is it truly reasonable to expect that teachers aren't "parenting"? Even if they expressly attempt to focus on intellectual pursuits only, that is just showing a different set of parenting lessons (potentially about lack of accountability, or the division of social mores from everything else). Likewise, if the teachers have turned to this absent form of parenting, are we correct in assuming that other parents aren't doing their "jobs"? (After all, it's never MY kid that isn't getting parenting, it's everyone else's). I don't have solutions or suggestions, but I want to raise the idea that maybe it's not "who" is or is not parenting, because everyone is, all the time, even if trying NOT to "parent". If so, then simply trying harder to ensuring parenting only happens from parents, and DOES happen from them, is doomed to failure, incompatible with the operating of developing minds?
- fosco 8y ago
  this is an interesting point and I think is more valid than many teachers (and adults of all flavors) want to admit due to not wanting to accept the enormous responsibility, thanks for sharing!
- fatnoah 8y ago
  >A child is learning from EVERYTHING. Is it truly reasonable to expect that teachers aren't "parenting"? This is precisely why, as a non-religious parent, I actually appreciated attending a Catholic school and sent my son to a non-denominational Christian school. It wasn't about religion, but it was about being in an environment where elements of characters were also emphasized.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> I am concerned that some parents expect that teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side of things which may be unrealistic. If you are an adult (or even the responsible older child), and you are supervising one or more children when their parents aren't present, you have to do the parenting side of things. It's not optional. Like, literally not optional, not merely morally not optional—if you are in that position you are standing in the place of a parent, whether you intend to be or not, and whether you do it well or not.
grkvlt 8y ago
> teachers are also doing the 'parenting' side Isn't this exactly what teachers must do, by law? This is what the term 'in loco parentis'[0] means - they are acting as parental substitutes. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis
- Viliam1234 8y ago
  Parenting is more difficult for a teacher than for a parent, because: - the parent has 1 or 2 or 3 kids, the teacher has 20 or 30 at the same time; - the parent spends plenty of time with kids, the teacher spends 45 minutes, and that's supposed to include teaching and examining; - the parent knows the child for years, the teacher may meet the teenager for the first time; - the parent can use a wild scale of rewards and punishment, the teacher... pretty much nothing, other than verbal feedback. So you can see it is quite unrealistic to expect the teacher to do the same amount of parenting as the parents are supposed to do. (By the way, in my experience the best behaving kids typically have at least one parent a teacher. I suppose it is because that parent has no illusions about how much parenting a school can do, and therefore does not try to outsource parenting to the school.)

privacypoller 8y ago

Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but I'm in Canada where we generally have good teachers. The problem we're experiencing is a curriculum that we feel is becoming easier over time and shifting away from core fundamentals. Teachers are powerless to oppose or address this, regardless of how they personally feel or want to teach. Should my 10-yr-old learn coping strategies for anxiety? absolutely, but she should also be learning some Canadian and World geography, be able to multiply numbers beyond 8x8, practice word and logic problems and understand that computers are not just cell phones and ipad applications. If we relied solely on the public education system it would be questionable if any of these were covered.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
afarrell 8y ago
I notice that The things you list are things that can learn online from youtube and video games. - Geography Now: https://youtu.be/DxxZOsfsIUM https://youtu.be/DxxZOsfsIUM - Crash Course Computer Science: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNlUrzyH5r6jN9ulIgZBpdo https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNlUrzyH5r6... - 6.004 EdX: https://www.edx.org/course/computation-structures-part-1-digital-mitx-6-004-1x-0 https://www.edx.org/course/computation-structures-part-1-dig... - Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Sid Meyer’s Pirates, Railroad Tycoon, bunches of kids games teach geography or arithmetic Whereas there isn’t really a good digital experience you can build to teach brain-management skills... or is there?
- indigochill 8y ago
  One of Coursera's top courses is a course on learning how to learn, which is really about learning the balance of self-discipline (both how to do it and why it works). It works not just for learning, but also for time management and other things: https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn Don't know about online courses for things like emotional health, but I see no reason there couldn't be.

loco5niner 8y ago

I wouldn't trust every teacher to teach well. The simple fact is, there are good teachers and there are bad teachers. Ultimately, it's the parents job to make sure kids are brought up well. That means helping teach during some years and stepping back more in some years. Parent involvement is a must.

gowld 8y ago
Sometimes parents are unable or unwilling to bring up their kids well. What should happen to those kids?
- loco5niner 8y ago
  I don't see how parents failing to do their job changes what I said. But to answer your unrelated question: Of course, responsible adults, which includes teachers, should help them as well as they can. Unfortunately, try as they might, only parents can do a parents job. Really, it comes down to providing a good family to as many kids as possible. Divorce, broken families, single parent homes, foster care, etc... They all fall short of what a good solid Mom/Dad home (with a good relationship between Mom and Dad) can provide a kid. That's where we should be focusing. Oh, and while I'm at it: World Peace. *edit - Unfortunately, we can't do anything about people dying or getting sick. But short of that, people really need to be responsible about the situation they are in when they bring kids into the world. And then they need to take care of those kids.