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Now to get someone to investigate the RAM market for its blatant price fixing

by Rotdhizon 8y ago

MaxBarraclough 8y ago
I can almost taste the inevitable wordplay. Cash eviction: EU writes-back to most recently-used RAM manufacturers
- distantsounds 8y ago
  careful, The Register may steal that one.
  - MaxBarraclough 8y ago
    Think it would end up spilling from The Register file?
- agumonkey 8y ago
  'no more static access to value, we need a more dynamic system' -- E.U
close04 8y ago
China is but perhaps the reasons behind it are questionable. It happens right when China decided to come barging into the RAM market so the timing is suspicious.
IloveHN84 8y ago
Also the smartphone one..EU should investigate on the higher prices, sometimes unjustified, of producers..see Apple, Samsung or LG. This race to and over the €1000 barrier is really nonsense, considering that the companies are profiting
- briandear 8y ago
  Define “unjustified.” What does it cost to write iOS? Because in the case of Apple, you have the cost of the parts and assembly, but you also have the engineering costs to even create the product. A product price isn’t just the sum of parts + assembly + profit. Regarding €1000 — if a country like France wouldn’t have a 20% VAT, prices would be lower obviously. So perhaps we should “investigate” the 20% VAT? Maybe we should “investigate” the French labor laws that contribute to the cost of goods sold? There are a lot of things we “could” investigate — or we can just accept that companies will price their good appropriately based on the market demand. This isn’t like it’s an essential item required for basic life. Maybe we could investigate why France has strict milk quotas that necessarily increase the price of milk? Investigating milk prices has a lot more relevance to people than the pricing of a luxury item like a high end smartphone. To be clear, I am not suggesting we investigate anything, only pointing out the absurdity of complaining about smartphone pricing when the EU has plenty of other products that are subject to price manipulation based on political interests. The EU has had tariffs for decades on imports, making everything more expensive. But sure, let’s complain about Apple and Samsung while ignoring textiles, food, cars and machine parts all of which are subject to tariffs that raise prices.
  - the_duke 8y ago
    I can't quite follow your thoughts there. You are wildly mixing together taxes, tariffs, production quotas, etc. Of course iPhones are ridiculously overpriced, and Apple has huge margins. But that's absolutely fine. There is plenty of competition in the smartphone space and people willing to bite the Apple are welcome to do so. PS, yes, the agriculture rules in the EU are sometimes crazy, but to a certain extent they do actually serve the purpose of guaranteeing local production capabilities, which is important.
- foepys 8y ago
  I paid 165€ (incl. VAT) for a last-year - but new - Nokia 6. This isn't a top of the line phone but considering that I keep my phones 3 years or longer (unless they randomly stop working, thanks LG) and use them a lot through the day, this is an absolute bargain. You can get low-end phones for under 100€. If you want a high-end phone, you have to pay proportionally more. But that's normal and applies to nearly everything else, too.
- ckocagil 8y ago
  That one is IMO different. Manufacturers are running out of things to improve so they're adding premium gimmicks to their phones. If you're looking for a flagship level phone without useless features, you should consider the likes of OP6, Honor 10 and Xiaomi's Mi series.
zeusk 8y ago
Huh, so if prices are high then blame them on fixing and collusion? What blatant proof do you have? They aren't setting any minimum floors or requiring retailers to set any floor. Heck, they don't even sell to retail directly anymore.
- Qub3d 8y ago
  While there isn't any positive proof for recent price changes, the prices are suspect given the history of price fixing DRAM producers have engaged in[0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing
  - zeusk 8y ago
    Aren't colleges or textbook publishers price fixing too, then? Price fixing is a serious allegation, you can't just come up with price history and throw allegations around.
    - evfanknitram 8y ago
      Of course he can. This is not a court room.
    - Aloisius 8y ago
      In most EU countries, price fixing of books are not only legal, but mandated by law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement
- hankhill 8y ago
  Maybe try reading the article, at the very least.
- deelowe 8y ago
  The price for dram chips has remained suspiciously high for a few years now (right around the time DDR4 came about). There's no smoking gun, but there have been lawsuits [1] and given the amount of consolidation that's happened in the dram business, it wouldn't be a surprise if there's more to the story. A lot of water cooler talk is happening right now that something is going on. Given that there is only 3 major players in the market these days with Samsung doing most of the heavy lifting, it wouldn't take much. [1] https://www.techrepublic.com/article/samsung-hynix-micron-sued-for-dram-price-fixing-that-could-have-raised-pc-prices/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/samsung-hynix-micron-su...
nerbert 8y ago
That can start at the national level if you're in the EU...

Now to get someone to investigate the RAM market for its blatant price fixing

MaxBarraclough 8y ago

I can almost taste the inevitable wordplay. Cash eviction: EU writes-back to most recently-used RAM manufacturers

distantsounds 8y ago
careful, The Register may steal that one.
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  Think it would end up spilling from The Register file?
agumonkey 8y ago
'no more static access to value, we need a more dynamic system' -- E.U

close04 8y ago

China is but perhaps the reasons behind it are questionable. It happens right when China decided to come barging into the RAM market so the timing is suspicious.

IloveHN84 8y ago

Also the smartphone one..EU should investigate on the higher prices, sometimes unjustified, of producers..see Apple, Samsung or LG. This race to and over the €1000 barrier is really nonsense, considering that the companies are profiting

briandear 8y ago
Define “unjustified.” What does it cost to write iOS? Because in the case of Apple, you have the cost of the parts and assembly, but you also have the engineering costs to even create the product. A product price isn’t just the sum of parts + assembly + profit. Regarding €1000 — if a country like France wouldn’t have a 20% VAT, prices would be lower obviously. So perhaps we should “investigate” the 20% VAT? Maybe we should “investigate” the French labor laws that contribute to the cost of goods sold? There are a lot of things we “could” investigate — or we can just accept that companies will price their good appropriately based on the market demand. This isn’t like it’s an essential item required for basic life. Maybe we could investigate why France has strict milk quotas that necessarily increase the price of milk? Investigating milk prices has a lot more relevance to people than the pricing of a luxury item like a high end smartphone. To be clear, I am not suggesting we investigate anything, only pointing out the absurdity of complaining about smartphone pricing when the EU has plenty of other products that are subject to price manipulation based on political interests. The EU has had tariffs for decades on imports, making everything more expensive. But sure, let’s complain about Apple and Samsung while ignoring textiles, food, cars and machine parts all of which are subject to tariffs that raise prices.
- the_duke 8y ago
  I can't quite follow your thoughts there. You are wildly mixing together taxes, tariffs, production quotas, etc. Of course iPhones are ridiculously overpriced, and Apple has huge margins. But that's absolutely fine. There is plenty of competition in the smartphone space and people willing to bite the Apple are welcome to do so. PS, yes, the agriculture rules in the EU are sometimes crazy, but to a certain extent they do actually serve the purpose of guaranteeing local production capabilities, which is important.
foepys 8y ago
I paid 165€ (incl. VAT) for a last-year - but new - Nokia 6. This isn't a top of the line phone but considering that I keep my phones 3 years or longer (unless they randomly stop working, thanks LG) and use them a lot through the day, this is an absolute bargain. You can get low-end phones for under 100€. If you want a high-end phone, you have to pay proportionally more. But that's normal and applies to nearly everything else, too.
ckocagil 8y ago
That one is IMO different. Manufacturers are running out of things to improve so they're adding premium gimmicks to their phones. If you're looking for a flagship level phone without useless features, you should consider the likes of OP6, Honor 10 and Xiaomi's Mi series.

zeusk 8y ago

Huh, so if prices are high then blame them on fixing and collusion? What blatant proof do you have? They aren't setting any minimum floors or requiring retailers to set any floor. Heck, they don't even sell to retail directly anymore.

Qub3d 8y ago
While there isn't any positive proof for recent price changes, the prices are suspect given the history of price fixing DRAM producers have engaged in[0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing
- zeusk 8y ago
  Aren't colleges or textbook publishers price fixing too, then? Price fixing is a serious allegation, you can't just come up with price history and throw allegations around.
  - evfanknitram 8y ago
    Of course he can. This is not a court room.
  - Aloisius 8y ago
    In most EU countries, price fixing of books are not only legal, but mandated by law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement
hankhill 8y ago
Maybe try reading the article, at the very least.
deelowe 8y ago
The price for dram chips has remained suspiciously high for a few years now (right around the time DDR4 came about). There's no smoking gun, but there have been lawsuits [1] and given the amount of consolidation that's happened in the dram business, it wouldn't be a surprise if there's more to the story. A lot of water cooler talk is happening right now that something is going on. Given that there is only 3 major players in the market these days with Samsung doing most of the heavy lifting, it wouldn't take much. [1] https://www.techrepublic.com/article/samsung-hynix-micron-sued-for-dram-price-fixing-that-could-have-raised-pc-prices/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/samsung-hynix-micron-su...

nerbert 8y ago

That can start at the national level if you're in the EU...