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>Because in a democracy, we believe that the average person should be able to make some judgements: Do you like the funny man with the strange hairdo or do you

>Because in a democracy, we believe that the average person should be able to make some judgements: Do you like the funny man with the strange hairdo or do you like the mean grandmother for president in the United States? These are some common sense things that people should be able to debate. And if you say that you are not allowed to think about that, then you probably should not be allowed to think about anything. Who on Earth is this directed at? This is the kind of rhetoric you expect from 3rd and 4th graders. I feel secondary embarrassment as an adult just knowing that someone that should be a peer or higher thinks like this.

Waterluvian 8y ago
49something percent of voting Americans are the audience for that kind of rhetoric. And I think we fail ourselves when we fail to accept that a vast quantity of people live and vote with their emotional brain and not their logical brain. I feel that one of the largest struggles, one of the largest causes of divide, is that to logical actors, the concept of an emotional actor is just so invalid that we believe them to be fundamentally wrong and broken and in need of fixing and education. I'm not arguing that irrationality and emotion-driven voting is an equal alternative to rationalism. I think my point is that we can't just dismiss it as broken and in need of fixing. It's how our brains can work and it's a valid state of being. I'm 31 and run upstairs in a panic when I switch the basement light off. Don't shake your head at how much of a fool I am, empathize with how I'm still sometimes driven by 3 million years of evolutionary practice of running away from predators. Edit: Clarified in a child reply why my train of thought went in this direction as a response to parent.
- olavk 8y ago
  I assume you consider yourself a "logical actor" and the people you disagree with "emotional actors"? But I don't see how political leaning can be anything but emotional. Logic does not tell you what goals you aim for or what society you want.
  - Waterluvian 8y ago
    I would classify myself as someone who endeavours to be a "logical actor" but is consciously aware that it's a constant battle against my emotional and fight-or-flight brain. I definitely don't make purely unbiased, Vulcan-like decisions. But I try my best to make sensible decisions. Maybe there's no such thing as a "logical actor". Just people who endeavour to override that part of their brain and people who don't? I'm thinking first-hand about family members who make no effort to scrutinize their political leanings. They're completely emotionally driven in their opinions and actions. I would go so far as to call these family members racist, but I don't think they're trying to be. They just genuinely believe that their poor healthcare access is because of all the immigrants moving into their community and the fix is a politician who will protect them from immigrants. Even though that politician explicitly said they would cut healthcare budget by double digit percentages.
- emsy 8y ago
  I think his point was rather that people are expected not to think about who they vote for, even abstractly, but vote what they are socially coerced to. This is certainly true for the last US election more than any other I can remember.
  - Waterluvian 8y ago
    Yeah. I think I'm trying to make that connection but might be failing with my words. Picking people you like, can have a beer with, look and feel like a winner, etc. is all, I think, driven by emotion, not patient, rational analysis. Being socially coerced is just an extension of that. You want to feel included, feel like a winner, so you'll make the choices that feel right, even if they're analytically wrong.

Waterluvian 8y ago

49something percent of voting Americans are the audience for that kind of rhetoric. And I think we fail ourselves when we fail to accept that a vast quantity of people live and vote with their emotional brain and not their logical brain. I feel that one of the largest struggles, one of the largest causes of divide, is that to logical actors, the concept of an emotional actor is just so invalid that we believe them to be fundamentally wrong and broken and in need of fixing and education. I'm not arguing that irrationality and emotion-driven voting is an equal alternative to rationalism. I think my point is that we can't just dismiss it as broken and in need of fixing. It's how our brains can work and it's a valid state of being. I'm 31 and run upstairs in a panic when I switch the basement light off. Don't shake your head at how much of a fool I am, empathize with how I'm still sometimes driven by 3 million years of evolutionary practice of running away from predators. Edit: Clarified in a child reply why my train of thought went in this direction as a response to parent.

olavk 8y ago
I assume you consider yourself a "logical actor" and the people you disagree with "emotional actors"? But I don't see how political leaning can be anything but emotional. Logic does not tell you what goals you aim for or what society you want.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  I would classify myself as someone who endeavours to be a "logical actor" but is consciously aware that it's a constant battle against my emotional and fight-or-flight brain. I definitely don't make purely unbiased, Vulcan-like decisions. But I try my best to make sensible decisions. Maybe there's no such thing as a "logical actor". Just people who endeavour to override that part of their brain and people who don't? I'm thinking first-hand about family members who make no effort to scrutinize their political leanings. They're completely emotionally driven in their opinions and actions. I would go so far as to call these family members racist, but I don't think they're trying to be. They just genuinely believe that their poor healthcare access is because of all the immigrants moving into their community and the fix is a politician who will protect them from immigrants. Even though that politician explicitly said they would cut healthcare budget by double digit percentages.
emsy 8y ago
I think his point was rather that people are expected not to think about who they vote for, even abstractly, but vote what they are socially coerced to. This is certainly true for the last US election more than any other I can remember.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  Yeah. I think I'm trying to make that connection but might be failing with my words. Picking people you like, can have a beer with, look and feel like a winner, etc. is all, I think, driven by emotion, not patient, rational analysis. Being socially coerced is just an extension of that. You want to feel included, feel like a winner, so you'll make the choices that feel right, even if they're analytically wrong.