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can confirm. Same with many of my friends. All heavy weed smokers, all used psychedelics. A worrying % went on to have some mental health issues. Now I know al

can confirm. Same with many of my friends. All heavy weed smokers, all used psychedelics. A worrying % went on to have some mental health issues. Now I know all the pro-weed people say "yeah but it is those pre-disposed to having schizophrenic episodes". Perhaps, but at the sample rate in my experience and others who have met later on the % is far higher than I would have expected to be. Same for just weed smoking. I post on a music forum, where near all members used to be heavy smokers . And anecdotally, about 80% had mental problems due to weed smoking. The cycle is clear. Heavy weed smoking for years. Stop enjoying it, but have become dependant. Come home from work. Smoke, freak out for an hour, effects wear off, smoke again, repeat. This goes on for 1-2 years before the realisation hits in, smoking is not good for me any more ------------------ for the record all were also poly-drug users, not exclusively smokers, so it could be caused by other drugs or the combination of. But I have no doubt it saying, this is not only people pre-disposed to mental health issues

wool_gather 8y ago
You're putting the temporal cart before the causal horse. With or without drugs, mental health issues can be latent or unacknowledged for years. And without defending marijuana use, naïve -- even unconscious -- self-medication is a very simple explanation for what you're describing.
- deleted 8y ago
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- Uberphallus 8y ago
  Yeah, I particularly like two counter examples. Example 1: We have prevalence of schizophrenia of 1-2% both in countries with extremely high use (Australia, 25-30% last year) and extremely low (Japan, <1% last year). Still many schizophrenia cases have been associated with cannabis, but here's the twist: CBD displays antipsychotic properties, whereas THC exacerbates psychosis. That matches both the selfmedication hypothesis, and the trigger hypothesis, but the aggregate data still dispels the causal hypothesis. Example 2: The countries with the absolute biggest rates of tobacco prevalence are hovering around 40-50%, the US is sitting at around 20%. Among schizophrenics, though, it goes around 75-90%. But funnily enough, you don't see anyone claiming tobacco causes schizophrenia!
  - AstralStorm 8y ago
    The tobacco lobby was quite successful debunking that myth. Cannabis had no lobby yet. The association is likely tied to self medication. Tobacco contains a low level monoamine inhibitor, these have some uses in psychiatry. (it is the main bit that is addictive - not really nicotine alone - harman and norharman, related to harmaline)
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > But funnily enough, you don't see anyone claiming tobacco causes schizophrenia! We have extensive research on tobacco, so we know it doesn't cause psychosis. We now know that if you smoke cannabis at 15 you're more likely to develop schizophrenia than people who don't smoke; we know that this is dose dependent; and that the people who smoke will develop illness earlier than people who don't smoke. There are strong reasons to believe that cannabis will cause psychotic illness in some people. Obviously that's not all people. Just as not everyone who drinks heavily will become alcoholic, not everyone who smokes heavily will develop psychosis. But schizophrenia is sufficiently harmful that we want to provide good warnings to people to take care with cannabis. Avoid use if you're under 21; avoid heavy and prolonged use; seek help early if you're having trouble. When campaigners claim cannabis is a harmless herb they make it much harder for people like me who are trying to get it legalised and regulated.
piva00 8y ago
Anecdotes are always going to be anecdotes. I can give you the complete opposite experience with my friends, some of them who tackled depression with mushrooms and are nowadays much happier and productive people. The older I get the more I see people have mental issues, as you are out of your teenage years and a lot of more stressors pop up in your life it's also much easier to trigger or develop mental health problems, so there are bunch of other variables that no anecdote will control for thus making it just a "feel good to tell my story" kind of post, not really enlightening.
crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
As a recovering information addict, I'll simply say this: Why and how I do something habitually is as important as what I'm doing, whether it's ingesting some substance or spending my days reading the internet. If someone is chronically doing something to escape from or numb pain (physical or emotional), expect major issues to come from the practice.

wool_gather 8y ago

You're putting the temporal cart before the causal horse. With or without drugs, mental health issues can be latent or unacknowledged for years. And without defending marijuana use, naïve -- even unconscious -- self-medication is a very simple explanation for what you're describing.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Uberphallus 8y ago
Yeah, I particularly like two counter examples. Example 1: We have prevalence of schizophrenia of 1-2% both in countries with extremely high use (Australia, 25-30% last year) and extremely low (Japan, <1% last year). Still many schizophrenia cases have been associated with cannabis, but here's the twist: CBD displays antipsychotic properties, whereas THC exacerbates psychosis. That matches both the selfmedication hypothesis, and the trigger hypothesis, but the aggregate data still dispels the causal hypothesis. Example 2: The countries with the absolute biggest rates of tobacco prevalence are hovering around 40-50%, the US is sitting at around 20%. Among schizophrenics, though, it goes around 75-90%. But funnily enough, you don't see anyone claiming tobacco causes schizophrenia!
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  The tobacco lobby was quite successful debunking that myth. Cannabis had no lobby yet. The association is likely tied to self medication. Tobacco contains a low level monoamine inhibitor, these have some uses in psychiatry. (it is the main bit that is addictive - not really nicotine alone - harman and norharman, related to harmaline)
- DanBC 8y ago
  > But funnily enough, you don't see anyone claiming tobacco causes schizophrenia! We have extensive research on tobacco, so we know it doesn't cause psychosis. We now know that if you smoke cannabis at 15 you're more likely to develop schizophrenia than people who don't smoke; we know that this is dose dependent; and that the people who smoke will develop illness earlier than people who don't smoke. There are strong reasons to believe that cannabis will cause psychotic illness in some people. Obviously that's not all people. Just as not everyone who drinks heavily will become alcoholic, not everyone who smokes heavily will develop psychosis. But schizophrenia is sufficiently harmful that we want to provide good warnings to people to take care with cannabis. Avoid use if you're under 21; avoid heavy and prolonged use; seek help early if you're having trouble. When campaigners claim cannabis is a harmless herb they make it much harder for people like me who are trying to get it legalised and regulated.

piva00 8y ago

Anecdotes are always going to be anecdotes. I can give you the complete opposite experience with my friends, some of them who tackled depression with mushrooms and are nowadays much happier and productive people. The older I get the more I see people have mental issues, as you are out of your teenage years and a lot of more stressors pop up in your life it's also much easier to trigger or develop mental health problems, so there are bunch of other variables that no anecdote will control for thus making it just a "feel good to tell my story" kind of post, not really enlightening.

crawfordcomeaux 8y ago

As a recovering information addict, I'll simply say this: Why and how I do something habitually is as important as what I'm doing, whether it's ingesting some substance or spending my days reading the internet. If someone is chronically doing something to escape from or numb pain (physical or emotional), expect major issues to come from the practice.