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Are you being purposefully dense? I’m not talking about isolated price controls in a few products. I’m talking about generalized price controls that cause short
by andrenth 8y ago
Are you being purposefully dense? I’m not talking about isolated price controls in a few products. I’m talking about generalized price controls that cause shortages and hunger. I’m talking about going to jail for trying to sell food above the price you bought it from a producer.
Do you honestly believe Norway, the UK and California are anything like that?
- RugnirViking 8y agoBut I am objecting to the idea that doing these things makes a country communist. I will refer again to the generalised food price controls during wartime in the USA and beyond - were these countries communist at that time? For another example of a country that has wide-ranging price controls on basic foodstuffs, look to the 2008 situation in mexico.
- andrenth 8y agoNo, price controls are always counterproductive, but they don’t automatically make a country communist. I never said they did. In fact I never used the word communist in this discussion until now. Venezuela is socialist because it combines destructive economic measures with collectivist ideology, takeover of institutions like the Supreme Court by Party supporters, violent government-backed militias, fraudulent elections, cult of personality, etc. In summary, all the usual traits of a totalitarian left wing government.
- RugnirViking 8y agoEvery single one of the things that you just listed are present in a many parts of the developing world. Most of these places are not considered communist. In fact I would say those things you said perfectly describe a country that is a Dictatorship - but there are lots of those that are not socialist. I assumed that you thought they were communist because you disagreed with my original post which claimed that they were not.
- andrenth 8y agoThe term “dictatorship of the proletariat” is not a coincidence.
- RugnirViking 8y agoYou seem to be making the argument that all dictatorships are communist. I can assure you this is not true, and would be surprised if you cannot think of any examples of non-communist dictators.
- andrenth 8y agoI'm making the argument in the opposite direction. Communism and socialism end up as dictatorships, when not already bootstrapped as one.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> Venezuela is socialist because it combines destructive economic measures with collectivist ideology, takeover of institutions like the Supreme Court by Party supporters, violent government-backed militias, fraudulent elections, cult of personality, etc. Except for the phrase “collectivist ideology”, none of that has anything to do with socialism at all.
- andrenth 8y agoIn theory? Maybe. In the real world those traits have been present every time.
- RugnirViking 8y agoThose things are also present in lots of places that are not at all communist. Correlation does not imply causation. It also doesn't mean they are literally the same thing. Consider zimbabwe or libya or syria - they all have these things and I don't imagine you consider them all communist.
- andrenth 8y agoWell, Mugabe was a Marxist. Gaddafi's government was the "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya". I don't know if Assad has any ideology, but his party is the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party, and he has been supported by Venezuelan and Nicaraguan dictators, Algeria's National Liberation Front, South Africa's ANC, etc.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> In the real world those traits have been present every time. No, they haven't. There's a whole lot of places that have had socialism will without any of them (and lots of non-socialist regimes with all of them.)