4 ms·

Why conflate this with populism? This is the result of poor economic policies.

by samdoidge 8y ago

nabla9 8y ago
It was the root cause. Populism and good economic policies repel each other.
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  Because your basic asumption is, that people are stupid?
  - linkmotif 8y ago
    Yes, especially popular things and popular people. If it’s popular, it’s stupid.
  - nabla9 8y ago
    People have incorrect intuitions of how the government and democracy works. They respond positively to solutions that are overly simplified. They see person problems instead of system problems. They want to solve issues one by one instead of using general principles.
    - hutzlibu 8y ago
      I actually do agree. But does this not conflict with our current concept of democracy in general? Because democracy is supposed to implement the will of the people .. so populism? But I don't think we should abandom democracy, but maybe make the system simpler, smaller - easier for people to understand. So more power back to the local communitys, instead of up and zentralized.
  - i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
    Well... people are stupid. Rather we are overly simplistic creatures that are set up to fail. My observations are: A) nobody is able to discern whether or not something is true without an astronomical amount of effort and resources therefore we resort to deeply flawed heuristics B) We are not rational creatures. Logic is mostly wasted on us. All decisions are ultimately emotional and often it's made by unconsciously substituting an easier question and deciding based off your answer to that. C) Incentives are extremely powerful motivators. They can cause us to do bad, nasty things to get a reward. D) A person sufficiently motivated by the incentives of being the sole person in control of all the resources can and will routinely use the flaws in our psychology against us to their advantage. Humans basically don't stand a chance. The fact that England and the US happened is freaking miracle. Interestingly in all cases where they system of humanity converged on a democracy was when there was a broad coalition of people with different interests who would all benefit from opposing the ruler. The scary thing is that it can all go back the other way. Even the US can collapse and fall into this kind of nightmare. I think from 2000 to 2015 was the golden era of humanity and we are now on a slow and steady descent into madness.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Why conflate this with populism? This is the result of poor economic policies. The poor policies resulted from first an elite ignoring the poor and then the poor deciding they wanted majority rule. Majority rule devolved into anti-intellectualism and reduced respect for property rights, which in turn led to falling production. Populism isn't the root cause, but it's damn close. (This story rhymes with the fall of the Roman Republic.)
- tcbawo 8y ago
  Is it populism or disrespect for property rights? What company would make a major investment after nationalization of industry? It seems you could be 'populist' by promoting education and investments to bring up the poor without destroying a country.
influx 8y ago
Because there are a lot of self deluded folks here who would enact similar economic policies except they would be under the guise of socialism and basic income.
raverbashing 8y ago
"Poor economic policies" You're taking about someone who claims Hugo Chavez appeared to him as a "little bird". Really https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/nicolas-maduro-hugo-chavez-little-bird_n_3007965.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/nicolas-maduro-hug...
i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
poor in the sense they don't work well for Venezuelans. They work well for Maduro. Sure, that's a fairly lopsided system, but that's what he has built. A country where he is the king and they are his subjects.

Why conflate this with populism? This is the result of poor economic policies.

nabla9 8y ago

It was the root cause. Populism and good economic policies repel each other.

hutzlibu 8y ago
Because your basic asumption is, that people are stupid?
- linkmotif 8y ago
  Yes, especially popular things and popular people. If it’s popular, it’s stupid.
- nabla9 8y ago
  People have incorrect intuitions of how the government and democracy works. They respond positively to solutions that are overly simplified. They see person problems instead of system problems. They want to solve issues one by one instead of using general principles.
  - hutzlibu 8y ago
    I actually do agree. But does this not conflict with our current concept of democracy in general? Because democracy is supposed to implement the will of the people .. so populism? But I don't think we should abandom democracy, but maybe make the system simpler, smaller - easier for people to understand. So more power back to the local communitys, instead of up and zentralized.
- i_made_a_booboo 8y ago
  Well... people are stupid. Rather we are overly simplistic creatures that are set up to fail. My observations are: A) nobody is able to discern whether or not something is true without an astronomical amount of effort and resources therefore we resort to deeply flawed heuristics B) We are not rational creatures. Logic is mostly wasted on us. All decisions are ultimately emotional and often it's made by unconsciously substituting an easier question and deciding based off your answer to that. C) Incentives are extremely powerful motivators. They can cause us to do bad, nasty things to get a reward. D) A person sufficiently motivated by the incentives of being the sole person in control of all the resources can and will routinely use the flaws in our psychology against us to their advantage. Humans basically don't stand a chance. The fact that England and the US happened is freaking miracle. Interestingly in all cases where they system of humanity converged on a democracy was when there was a broad coalition of people with different interests who would all benefit from opposing the ruler. The scary thing is that it can all go back the other way. Even the US can collapse and fall into this kind of nightmare. I think from 2000 to 2015 was the golden era of humanity and we are now on a slow and steady descent into madness.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Why conflate this with populism? This is the result of poor economic policies. The poor policies resulted from first an elite ignoring the poor and then the poor deciding they wanted majority rule. Majority rule devolved into anti-intellectualism and reduced respect for property rights, which in turn led to falling production. Populism isn't the root cause, but it's damn close. (This story rhymes with the fall of the Roman Republic.)

tcbawo 8y ago
Is it populism or disrespect for property rights? What company would make a major investment after nationalization of industry? It seems you could be 'populist' by promoting education and investments to bring up the poor without destroying a country.

influx 8y ago

Because there are a lot of self deluded folks here who would enact similar economic policies except they would be under the guise of socialism and basic income.

raverbashing 8y ago

"Poor economic policies" You're taking about someone who claims Hugo Chavez appeared to him as a "little bird". Really https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/nicolas-maduro-hugo-chavez-little-bird_n_3007965.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/nicolas-maduro-hug...

i_made_a_booboo 8y ago

poor in the sense they don't work well for Venezuelans. They work well for Maduro. Sure, that's a fairly lopsided system, but that's what he has built. A country where he is the king and they are his subjects.