4 ms·

Who is "they"?

by krapht 8y ago

Who is "they"?

carlmr 8y ago
From the headline I'd say Venezuela seems a good candidate. However this ignores the reality that they can already not buy any useful amount of bitcoins with their currency and mining is unrealistic. Maybe some altcoin might work, but then a lot of vendors would need to switch as well.
- simias 8y ago
  The government of Venezuela has no reason to replace a currency they control with one they don't. Switching to cryptocurrencies will definitely not solve the many systemic issues in Venezuela so the government would still end up with a broken economy and on top of that they wouldn't control the currency anymore. That doesn't make sense. Switching to bitcoin won't make the Brent price go up. The people could individually decide to switch to cryptocurrencies (or dollars, euros, bottle caps etc...) and get others to accept it but then you have the problem of purchasing this currency in the first place and it still doesn't solve the underlying issue of the broken Venezuelan economy. You could be a bitcoin billionaire in Caracas right now, if the shop doesn't sell toilet paper then it doesn't sell toilet paper. On the other hand if you have bolivar bills... It's not the bolivar that's broken, it's the Venezuelan economy. This ridiculous inflation is a symptom.
  - gtt 8y ago
    If they cannot control currency, may be they should give up this control?
- Shivetya 8y ago
  It would fail for the same reason the economy has already failed. The government does not respect the private property rights of individuals or businesses. As such any attempt to generate wealth ends when someone in power decides to take it. When governments fail to protect the private property rights of their citizens, be it physical property, financial investments and savings, to the income they earn, poverty will result for the majority.
  - simias 8y ago
    The economy failed because it was completely dependent on oil. When the oil price went down the economy went bust. It's only at this point that the socialist politics failed the people by not making the drastic and painful cuts that would've kept the country afloat. Lack of protection for the private property probably didn't help but making that the main cause for the Venezuelan collapse is a very ideological stance to have IMO. Insert here the obligatory "look at china" counter-example. As far as I can tell the only way to really avoid this catastrophe would've been to diversify the Venezuelan economy in decades past (something Chavez promised to do but didn't) but nobody did it, regardless of political affiliation. "Free money coming straight from the ground" is just so much easier for a politician than making a complex and potentially impopular long term economic reform.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - phyller 8y ago
      China is not a great counter example. Chavez actually did things to redistribute wealth, and when certain goods got too expensive they fixed prices, and when the businesses failed or refused to operate at a loss they were nationalized. China has a state plan and they invest in businesses. That means they provide resources to businesses instead of taking them away. Maybe that sounds like just better implemented socialism. Or maybe it's just literal capitalism on a scale never before seen. Think about it. What does the government of China provide to its citizens? If you are poor in China, will the government take care of you? No. It might provide you with a job, though. The USA is more socialist than China, the government will provide food, housing and even medical care for you and your children. You cannot be refused from an emergency room because you cannot pay. A few extremely wealthy people run China, and make decisions that are in their best interests. They invest their capital to get returns. Sounds like capitalism to me.
      - simias 8y ago
        To be clear I wasn't stating that the situation in China is equivalent in any way to that of Venezuela, I just felt it was a bit strange to root the current woes of Venezuela solely on lack of free market basically. It probably doesn't help but what killed Venezuela in the end is their complete reliance on oil money and complete lack of plan B when it crashed. I'm pretty certain that if the right had been in charge when the crisis happened things would've played out mostly the same (I don't believe for a second that the right would have better diversified the economy for the same reason that the socialists didn't, nobody says no to free money), the main difference being that they would have cut all the benefits to the poor immediately to cushion the fall a bit and they'd have let papa USA bail them out in exchange for a de-facto feudalization of their economy. I agree that it would probably have turned better for the Venezuelan people (at least in the short term) but socialism vs. capitalism is not really the cause of the crash, it's more about the recovery or lack thereof. If the petrol infusion had kept going I'm sure people would be chanting Dear Leader's name in the streets, whoever that would be.
- jxub 8y ago
  Yes, other altcoins like Nano with 0 fees are increasingly being adopted, hope they help with the problem.
  - jmanderley 8y ago
    "Increasingly being adopted" where?
rawTruthHurts 8y ago
From the post title: "Venezuela's Inflation to Reach 1M Percent" If I'm correct, I'd say "they" refers to "Venezuelans", that is, the inhabitants of Venezuela.

Who is "they"?

by krapht 8y ago

Who is "they"?

From the headline I'd say Venezuela seems a good candidate. However this ignores the reality that they can already not buy any useful amount of bitcoins with their currency and mining is unrealistic. Maybe some altcoin might work, but then a lot of vendors would need to switch as well.

simias 8y ago
The government of Venezuela has no reason to replace a currency they control with one they don't. Switching to cryptocurrencies will definitely not solve the many systemic issues in Venezuela so the government would still end up with a broken economy and on top of that they wouldn't control the currency anymore. That doesn't make sense. Switching to bitcoin won't make the Brent price go up. The people could individually decide to switch to cryptocurrencies (or dollars, euros, bottle caps etc...) and get others to accept it but then you have the problem of purchasing this currency in the first place and it still doesn't solve the underlying issue of the broken Venezuelan economy. You could be a bitcoin billionaire in Caracas right now, if the shop doesn't sell toilet paper then it doesn't sell toilet paper. On the other hand if you have bolivar bills... It's not the bolivar that's broken, it's the Venezuelan economy. This ridiculous inflation is a symptom.
- gtt 8y ago
  If they cannot control currency, may be they should give up this control?
Shivetya 8y ago
It would fail for the same reason the economy has already failed. The government does not respect the private property rights of individuals or businesses. As such any attempt to generate wealth ends when someone in power decides to take it. When governments fail to protect the private property rights of their citizens, be it physical property, financial investments and savings, to the income they earn, poverty will result for the majority.
- simias 8y ago
  The economy failed because it was completely dependent on oil. When the oil price went down the economy went bust. It's only at this point that the socialist politics failed the people by not making the drastic and painful cuts that would've kept the country afloat. Lack of protection for the private property probably didn't help but making that the main cause for the Venezuelan collapse is a very ideological stance to have IMO. Insert here the obligatory "look at china" counter-example. As far as I can tell the only way to really avoid this catastrophe would've been to diversify the Venezuelan economy in decades past (something Chavez promised to do but didn't) but nobody did it, regardless of political affiliation. "Free money coming straight from the ground" is just so much easier for a politician than making a complex and potentially impopular long term economic reform.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - phyller 8y ago
    China is not a great counter example. Chavez actually did things to redistribute wealth, and when certain goods got too expensive they fixed prices, and when the businesses failed or refused to operate at a loss they were nationalized. China has a state plan and they invest in businesses. That means they provide resources to businesses instead of taking them away. Maybe that sounds like just better implemented socialism. Or maybe it's just literal capitalism on a scale never before seen. Think about it. What does the government of China provide to its citizens? If you are poor in China, will the government take care of you? No. It might provide you with a job, though. The USA is more socialist than China, the government will provide food, housing and even medical care for you and your children. You cannot be refused from an emergency room because you cannot pay. A few extremely wealthy people run China, and make decisions that are in their best interests. They invest their capital to get returns. Sounds like capitalism to me.
    - simias 8y ago
      To be clear I wasn't stating that the situation in China is equivalent in any way to that of Venezuela, I just felt it was a bit strange to root the current woes of Venezuela solely on lack of free market basically. It probably doesn't help but what killed Venezuela in the end is their complete reliance on oil money and complete lack of plan B when it crashed. I'm pretty certain that if the right had been in charge when the crisis happened things would've played out mostly the same (I don't believe for a second that the right would have better diversified the economy for the same reason that the socialists didn't, nobody says no to free money), the main difference being that they would have cut all the benefits to the poor immediately to cushion the fall a bit and they'd have let papa USA bail them out in exchange for a de-facto feudalization of their economy. I agree that it would probably have turned better for the Venezuelan people (at least in the short term) but socialism vs. capitalism is not really the cause of the crash, it's more about the recovery or lack thereof. If the petrol infusion had kept going I'm sure people would be chanting Dear Leader's name in the streets, whoever that would be.
jxub 8y ago
Yes, other altcoins like Nano with 0 fees are increasingly being adopted, hope they help with the problem.
- jmanderley 8y ago
  "Increasingly being adopted" where?

rawTruthHurts 8y ago

From the post title: "Venezuela's Inflation to Reach 1M Percent" If I'm correct, I'd say "they" refers to "Venezuelans", that is, the inhabitants of Venezuela.